Glen* is a third grader who was brought to testing to determine the best teaching style for him. Testing revealed that Glen’s overall intelligence and academic skills were in the Average range. However, great variability exists within the tests. Glen demonstrated excellent Verbal Comprehension skills, while his Processing Speed Index and Perceptual Organization Indexes fell significantly below his other indexes. Glen’s cognitive and academic skills are inhibited by his weak organizational skills and slow processing speed.
This is what I call the frustration profile. The child has a good vocabulary and is able to answer questions verbally, but due to difficulties with fine motor skill (drawing/writing) it is very hard for him to write down his ideas. Glen’s speed of processing is significantly lower than his verbal comprehension abilities, which cause him to need extended time in order to demonstrate his true abilities on any written assignment. Generally writing skills are the greatest academic weakness in a child with this profile.
Glen’s weak Perceptual Organizational skills make short structured writing tasks much easier for him than open-ended assignments without structure. Building language organization skills (the ability to mental manipulate ideas) will help him in projects that require him to structure the material independently. Posing questions, researching answers, organizing information, and expressing ideas clearly are higher order thinking skills that depend on the ability to use language to analyze, compare, judge, and connect ideas.
In addition to limiting him in open-ended, abstract work, Glen’s organizational difficulty also restricts his good working memory for concrete material. Because he does not easily organize ideas into related–thus memorable–chunks, the quantity of information Glen can store actively in mind while working on other steps in a complex task is limited. As a result, his good memory skills quickly become overwhelmed, and multi-step problems become taxing for him. In other words, while his basic memory function is fine, his difficulty categorizing verbal and visual information places undue stress upon it. Teaching Glen how to make information meaningful to him will facilitate his learning.
Another element in Glen’s challenges is his relatively less developed executive functions of plan and initiate, —the ability to start, plan, assess and adjust his actions and thinking. As a result, problems with many steps or ones that require mid-process assessment and adjustments shake the self-confidence Glen has in more structured demands. As he advances in school, more assignments will expect exactly this ability to structure and express material on his own.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Processing Speed
- Allow longer response time for Glen to:
- respond orally to questions in class
- complete seatwork assignments in class
- make decisions when offered a choice of activities
- Allow extra time for tests, usually time and a half.
- Shorten assignments so they can be accomplished within the time allotted.
- Provide copies of notes rather than requiring Glen to copy from the board in a limited time.
- Build Glen’s efficiency in completing work through building automaticity.
- Train Glen in time management techniques to become aware of the time that tasks take.
- Emphasize accuracy rather than speed in evaluating Glen in all subject areas.
- Replace timed tests with alternative assessment procedures.
- Provide a scribe or voice-to-text software to record Glen’s answers on tests to accommodate for slow writing fluency.
- Use test formats with reduced written output formats (e.g. multiple choice, True / False, fill in the blank) to accommodate for slow writing fluency.
Writing Skills
- Teach brainstorming, clustering and mind mapping skills.
- Teach editing skills.
- Allow the use of a computer.
Fine-Motor skills
- Use Retrain the Brain to build fine motor skills.
- Use Handwriting without Tears to enhance letter formation.
Visual-Perceptual Strategies
- Use of graphic organizers to depict information visually and increase his retention of ideas.
- Exercises to sharpen his ability to attend to visual detail and to express similarities and differences between images.
- Use the Snap Cubes and Visualizing/Verbalizing Programs to facilitate his ability to conceptualize and process visual information.
- This program focuses on strengthening a student’s ability to mentally manipulate objects, improving visual- spatial skills, and whole-part relations.
- Use logic puzzles to teach sequential thinking skills, cause and effect, and how to identify and provide missing information.
Executive Function/Memory Skills
- Build strategies to help him analyze, prioritize, and execute specific steps in a given assignment.
- Break down tasks and follow the order checking work along the way.
- Rehearse new information to help encode it.
- Use his verbal strengths to talk himself through tasks.
- Teach Glen strategies to help him recall information, such as PAR.
- 1. P= Picture it.
- 2. A= Associate it
- 3. R= Review it.
- Teach Glen to recognize common words for ordering a sequence of instructions, such as “first,” “next,” and “finally.”
- Teach Glen how to effectively follow written directions by underlining key words, numbering steps, and crossing off tasks when he has completed them.
- Teach Glen to use graphic organizers such as checklists and timelines for breaking down assignments, as well as classify and categorize information.
* Note: The student profile above is a composite of students with similar learning styles.
Learn about our Writing Workshop for students with strong verbal skills and slow processing speed.
I have a 132 verbal iq and an 87 performance iq. I’ve worked for over 40 years as a writer/attorney but have always had problems with organization. . Shocking, huh?
I shared your article with a friend whose daughter has these issues, thank you.
I came across this searching for help with my own son though but can’t find any information on how to help someone like him.
He has done WISC-IV twice- once 2 years ago and again recently. We have no diagnosis.
His IQ is 130 (two years ago it was 132) and he has the opposite issue than this article.
His processing speed is 150+ in the 99.9 percentile. But his verbal comprehension is just average. They say this is likely to do with the fact he is bilingual (English and Japanese) but in Japan that is the quick assumption for any child that is biracial or mixed race in my experience. All other areas of the test are high average except the processing speed which i think in English is classed as exceptional.
He does not have learning difficulties as such but we suffer from outbursts at home, violence, frustration etc.
He will be 12 in December. Do you have any articles that talk about this that you can link me to? Or any further reading I should do.
Thank you
He does have a very high PSI and I would start with that. A fast processor has to slow down. The best way to get your son to slow down is to make sure he understands his learning profile and how he can best manage his processing/thinking to gain the best results. My article on metacognition ( thinking about thinking) may help you.
Thank you- i will read the link you posted. I appreciate it.
Dr. Mullin,
thank you so much for this article.
This is like finding a treasure box.
My child, 9 yo., just got tested, because I was struggling with him throwing tantrum almost every time I ask about his homework, and when he is frustrated he hit himself.
His WISC-IV result are:
FSIQ 118
VCI 143
PRI 111
WMI 97
PSI 94
I live in a country with a rigid schooling system, many standardized tests.
Would you like to give me advice to help him dealing with this?
Your child has excellent verbal skills, while his other Index scores are in the average range. Whenever there are discrepancies between skills it can cause frustration. This profile suggests that he can easily communicate his ideas verbally, but it is harder for him to express himself in writing. While his working memory and processing speed skills are average they are significantly weaker than his verbal skills, so building his working memory and executive functioning skills can help him to share his ideas with less frustration.
Here are some strategies from my article on working memory and processing speed. https://bitsofwisdomforall.com/working-memory-processing-speed/
For students with Weak Executive Function/Memory Skills/Processing Speed
• Build strategies to help students analyze, prioritize, and execute specific steps in each assignment.
• Encourage students to think through responses and take their time; many students with processing speed issues develop a compensatory strategy to rush through to finish work in time; these students would benefit from slowing down to process the information more deeply.
• Teach students to stop and read directions carefully prior to starting a task.
• Break down tasks and follow the order-checking work along the way.
• Build memory skills by building associations to preexisting knowledge.
• Rehearse new information to help encode it.
• Encourage students to visualize what they are going to do before they begin a task.
• Teach students strategies to increase engagement such as use of reminders (which can be set on devices such as the iPhone) to help build attention, awareness, structure, and independent work habits.
• Teach students to use self-talk to organize learning and performance strategies and to focus attention on tasks.
• Teach students strategies to help recall information, such as PAR:
o P= Picture it.
A= Associate it
R= Review it.
Here are some strategies to build executive functioning skills: https://bitsofwisdomforall.com/metacognition-helps-build-self-regulation-and-executive-functioning-skills/
Creating a prompt that children can memorize and use when they approach a task is very helpful to building metacognitive skills. Here are 4 steps to help teach metacognition skills:
1. STOP
2. THINK: What am I supposed to do? Create a plan.
3. DO: How do I do it? Follow the plan.
4. CHECK: Did I do it? Check the plan.
Once they have memorized and begun using the prompt children will be asking themselves questions and talking themselves through tasks. These metacognition strategies help build executive functioning skills and behavior regulation skills.
Here are some examples of extended questions children can begin to ask themselves.
First, STOP!
Then, THINK. Make a plan before I start the task: When I am beginning a task, ask myself:
• Why am I doing this?
• Do I already know something that will help me?
• What will the finished product look like?
• What is my first step?
• How much time do I have?
Next, DO. During the task: When I am monitoring the plan of action, ask myself:
• How am I doing?
• Am I following the directions?
• What do I need to do next?
• Does this match what I planned?
• Am I getting enough done in the time I am spending?
• Is there something I don’t understand?
• Do I need to ask for help?
Finally, CHECK. After the task: When I am evaluating the plan of action, ask myself:
• Did the product match the picture I had for it?
• Is this better or worse than I expected?
• What could I have done differently?
• Is there anything missing?
Your article and feedback on the comments are very helpfu And interesting. I just had both my sons evaluated and I cannot get the psychologist to return my phone calls or emails. Both boys are bright and have great verbal skills. Both had significantly lower processing speeds. My older son hit the mild range for Autism on is SRS-2 but it wasn’t discussed. He had VCI 146 Fluid Reasoning 128 working memory 112 and processing speed 95.
My youngest VCI 118, VS 122 FR 103 wm107 and processing speed 80 . He was labeled with a mood disorder that doesn’t fit, I suspected dyslexia but that psychologist who did the exam indicated he couldn’t have that “ because of his age” just turned 6. I feel a lot of the emotional issues we see from them are frustration due to the mismatched processing speed. I’m looking for how I can assist them. Any recommendations?
I hope you have had a chance to speak with the psychologist about the results by now. There are many factors that influence processing speed. There is a great book on processing speed: Bright Kids Who Can’t Keep Up by Ellen Braaten, Ph.D. and Brian Willoughby, Ph.D. (2014). I have a summary of it https://bitsofwisdomforall.com/great-book-processing-speed/. It is hard to give insight on dyslexia from just the WISC results. I would be happy to set up a consultation if you would like a more in-depth discussion of the full evaluation results.
Hi Dr Mullen,
I’m a 44 year old healthy male and was little slow in daily activities
Recently , I got myself tested for WAIS -IV and found some odd patterns .
Folowing is the break up
VCI 103(SS-9,VC-9,IN-14)
PRI 98 (BD-7,VP-14,MR-8)
WMI 117(AR-15,DS-11)
PSI 81(
FSIQ 100
Although the VIQ and PRI were understandable . But there were huge discrepancies between the subtests
for e.g in VCI i scored 9 in SS and VC , but scored 14 in IN .(Could it be because english is not my native language?)
Similarly in PRI I scored 7 in BD , 8 in MR and 14 VP(I was little confused during BD and it was spoiled )
On MR subtest I’m surprised that despite having reasoning as my forte , I did so bad there .(Can it happen because it was timed
and I have low processing index of 81, which depressed the scores)
Surprisingly WMI was 117 with (AR 15, DS 11). I’m a computer programmer and felt down after seeing these abysmal scores.
Is it possible that performance is depressed by low processing speed in the tests?
Also , I feel that I have a fairly high logical reasoning skills as I have noticed.
Can you please share some insights on this ?
I’m considering to diversify in data science as I have keen interest in statistics and data modelling
Should I stop thinking about the transition after seeing this score?
Thank you in advance
What these scores suggest is that you are very good at remembering information and solving mental visual puzzles in your mind. You also demonstrate a strong ability to solve mathematical word problems. I would not focus on the scores as much as your aptitude when considering career choices. A career counselor can give you more insight into how these scores translate to a specific job.
Hi Dr Mullen
I found your article very interesting. My 14 yo son has just been assessed. There has been concerns about him on and off for years. When he was 7, the school said they suspected aspergers as his social skills were poor but the assessment came out negative. He was however diagnosed with sensory processing disorder. (He has since developed a great sense of humour and has great friends so definitely not asd).
We brought him to an educational psychologist when he was 11 as his written work is poor and he had found it difficult to learn to read. He was found to have weak spelling but his overall literacy was above the cut off for dyslexia.
I still believed that he was dyslexic as he is still have difficulty with written work and poor organisation. I’d also been noticing that while he can follow conversation when focussed on it, it always takes a while for him to understand you when you initially speak to him or ask him a question.
Anyhow we went to a different psychologist last month and a more thorough assessment was done. The problem seems to be processing speed and poor working memory. I’m worried for him now as i had assumed all along mild dyslexia but is the issue a more far reaching one?
His scores were:
Working memory 5%
Processing speed – 2%
Verbal – 95%
Fluid reasoning – 87%
Visual spatial – 96%
Have you any advice for a child with scores such as these?
Thanks so much!
Your son possesses a strong intellectual potential, which is hindered by his working memory and processing speed. These processing skills are making reading and writing difficult for him. My article, The Domino Dilemma, explains how weak working memory skills impact overall learning.
Your son may need extra time to take in and process novel information. The WISC-V working memory tasks measure the immediate intake of auditory and visual input. The processing speed tasks are timed visual processing tasks. If your son’s cognitive processing speed is slow, both of these measures will be impacted. He needs extra time to intake in and process new information and produce written work.
To help increase working memory ability your son needs to build strong executive functioning skills. Weak working memory skills indicate that your son has a difficult time holding novel information and working with it. Therefore it is important to break new information into small parts that he can work with.
To help accommodate slow processing speed, extra time and preplanning skills are needed. If handwriting is a weakness, strong typing skills and the use of a computer for all tasks is recommended.
Given how low the Processing Speed Index is, I recommend that you have his eye tracking skills evaluated to make sure he is seeing the visual symbols clearly. When I see low working memory and processing speed together, I also consider if attention could be a contributing factor. Weak attention skills can cause a student to work extra hard to compensate. Working memory and processing speed are highly impacted by attention skills.
I don’t have a full learning profile of your son, but here are some recommendations and accommodations for a student, who I will call Max, who has a similar profile:
Educational Accommodations and Recommendations:
o It is recommended that Max* receive time and a half (50% extended time) on assignments, tests, and formal examinations to allow him time to read and comprehend instructions.
o Educational support sessions are recommended to help Max devise strategies and build his writing, processing speed and executive functioning skills.
o It is recommended that Max receive extended time on all standardized tests including AP exams, and the SAT and ACT (time and a half)
o Encourage Max to take short breaks while working to regain stamina and focus
Build Writing and Executive Functioning skills:
Improve Max’s Executive Functioning Skills to improve reading comprehension, writing and study skills.
• Build strategies to help Max analyze, prioritize, and execute specific steps in a given assignment.
• Analyze
• When working with academic material, review the components to understand the whole concept (picture) to help Max make meaningful connections to the material.
• Teach metacognitive strategies and how to narrate his process. Use of self-talk to organize his learning and performance strategies and to focus his attention on tasks.
• Encourage Max to ask questions if he doesn’t understand what he needs to do.
• Teach STOP/THINK/PLAN DO approach to problems and tasks
• Prioritize
• Teach Max to stop and read directions carefully prior to starting a task.
• Break down tasks into steps and estimate time needed for each step.
• Assure that Max is given time to clarify instructions.
• Teach Max strategies that help him organize information in meaningful ways:
o Outlining
o Mapping
o Sequencing the steps
o Teach use of time management tools
o Planner
• Execute
• Check off work as it is completed.
• Teach metacognitive strategies and how to narrate his process.
• The SQ3R approach is recommended as an approach to studying information from text books
• Max can try listening to audiobooks to see if this helps him focus on the material and help his comprehension
• Build memory skills by building association to preexisting knowledge.
• Preview material
• View videos of topic
• “Chunking” information into more manageable units
• Rehearse new information to help encode it
• Teach Max strategies to help him recall information, such as PAR:
P= Picture it.
A= Associate it.
R= Review it.
• Organize writing skills
• Use a program like Mindomo to organize his ideas for writing assignments
• Use a structured program like Step Up to Writing to develop syntax and grammar skills.
• Learn spelling rule with the By The Rules Spelling program
Build Working Memory Skills
• CogMed working memory program (cogmed.com)
• Lumosity (lumosity.com)
• Brain Trainer (app store)
Processing Speed/ Fine Motor Skills/ Writing Skills
• Allow extra time for tests, usually time and a half.
• Provide extra time for Max to complete in-class assignments.
• Allow Max to use the computer for all writing tasks.
• Use of a calculator for timed math assessments.
Thank you very much that is so helpful.
We went to OT to rule out dyspraxia a few days ago and she said no, no dyspraxia but has advised us to go for ADD assessment. She seemed pretty confident that that was an issue and psychologist had mentioned attention too so youre right there.
His spelling and writing speed are both at 5%ile so she advised he will get an extra 20 mins break time in exams and be in a different room but where we live we don’t get time and a half like you recommend which would be great.
We will book in for an eye test too thanks for that. I wonder does he have irlen syndrom as he is very light sensitive.
Delighted we are getting the help needed now but still a bit shocked at his scores.
I would look into Auditory Processing Disorder. It is similar to dyslexia but impacts all language processing (verbal and written). Kids with APD are very bright, creative thinkers with great sense of humor but they struggle with traditional academic skills.
Hi Dr. Mullin,
We have just received the evaluation results for my 9 year-old daughter. Her WISC-V results are:
VCI: 130
VSI: 114
FRI:115
WMI: 107
PSI: 80
She loves reading and reads a few grades above grade level, but really struggles with spelling and writing. And she says she doesn’t like math. Getting homework done is a struggle too. She has no behavioral or social issues and her grades in school are average, but at the same time she is clearly struggling in the areas above. There is also a huge discrepancy between her higher and lower results in the in the Woodcock-Johnson IV. For example, oral language/reading comprehension/reading vocabulary results are all above the 90th percentile (superior/very superior range) but she scores in the low average/low range for written language (PR 31), spelling (PR 21), math facts fluency (PR 2)/math calculation skills (PR 15), and word reading fluency (PR 16). How can she have oral language/reading comprehension in the superior range, with such low results for these other areas? Is this because of slow processing speed? Should we ask for more targeted testing? I am wondering if she might have dyslexia, but flies under the radar.
We have our IEP determination meeting with the school CST coming up (fingers crossed they offer her an IEP), and I am wondering what services would be helpful for her. Would you have any suggestions or advice?
Thank you!
I do think that it is worth looking closer at dyslexia. Your daughter is very bright and verbal, so she is probably she sight-reading for vocabulary and comprehension. Dyslexia is easy to miss in bright, verbal students. Given that her reading without context (word reading fluency) is so much lower than her reading comprehension, we can guess that she is very good at picking up the meaning of stories and just skipping words she doesn’t know. I would investigate “Double-Deficit Dyslexia” Here is an excerpt from my article Will My Child Always Be Dyslexic?
If we are going to use the term dyslexia to define all students who have a reading disorder it is helpful to consider the “types” of dyslexia. The goal of understanding “types” of dyslexia is identifying the underlying issues that are making reading difficult for your child.
Phonological/ Auditory Dyslexia: These students can’t sound out nonsense words, they have weak sound/symbol associations. It is difficult for this student to “hear”, or discriminate, the difference in sounds. “Hat” and “bat” may sound the same. If not identified early, this type of student will learn to read by building a large sight word vocabulary.
Visual Dyslexia: Visual processing issues make it hard for this type of student to discriminate between visual symbols (letters and numbers) quickly and accurately. Letter reversals are common as are substituting one word for another. “Home” can be read as “House”.
Double-Deficit Dyslexia: A double deficit means a person with dyslexia is struggling with two aspects of reading. It’s often used to describe people who have trouble identifying the sounds in words and who have trouble with naming speed. The connection between the verbal (auditory) portion of the brain and the visual portion of the brain is weak. Tests of rapid naming pick up this visual/language loop.
Understood.org posted a great video on what a good evaluation looks like. Inside a Dyslexia Evaluation
Hi Dr. Mullin,
I’ve been reading your answers to all the questions here and they have been very informative. Thank you ♥️
I have a quick question myself if I may.
Would I fit into the frustration profile? To what degree?
I am 32 years old, undergoing ADHD treatment and going back to school after that.
My Wais 4 score is:
VCI: 123
WMI: 129
PRI: 105
PSI: 100.
From your article I can relate to:
1) generally writing skills being my biggest weakness. (in addition: generally expressing myself, being too literal and detail oriented with words, hard time generalizing).
2) short structured writing tasks much easier than open-ended assignments without structure.
3)multi-step problems were an issue. (I assume now b/c of ADHD and not focusing enough to learn)
4) poor plan and initiate: (I also assume From ADHD)
Yes, your profile fits the Frustration Profile of strong verbal skills with weaker processing speed. Have taken our Executive Functioning Quiz? Many people with ADHD have weak executive functioning skills. Learning more about your strengths and weaknesses can help guide toward the support you may want to set up to help with school. I wish you the best of luck.
Hi,
I’m an adult in my 30’s who was tested recently. My Processing Speed is a 76 on the WAIS-4 and my other scores are: VC-102, PR-92, WM-100, and Full IQ-92. Am I dyslexic or have some of dyslexia? One of my favorite hobbies is reading although it does take a long time to read big books and ones that are not young adult novels. What are some careers I could look into? I just graduated with a degree in Liberal Arts after 10 years of trying to get a Bachelors.
OH
I’m glad you got tested and now have an understanding of your cognitive profile. I am not a career counselor so I can not give you help in that area. There is much more information about your strengths and passions that is needed to determine what career you would do well in. One of the most important things to consider is what you like to do. Your processing speed is a bit slow, but that doesn’t automatically exclude jobs for you. From my experience, I find that learning differences are often overcome with training and motivation. A good career counselor will help you find good options that fit your personality and cognitive profile. I wish you luck in your search to find your path.
This is incredibly helpful. My son was just diagnosed with ASD at age 14. His processing speed was in the 2nd percentile and his verbal comprehension is in the 99th percentile. Seeing that made me realize how exhausting school must be for him. I’m hoping his 504 can be really beefed up with some of these ideas.
I have just had my 5 year old son tested at a facility due to a hellish year in Pre-K. He really struggles with behavioral issues and meltdowns on a day to day basis. He either gets super overwhelmed by his work & refuses to do it or gets hyper focused on it. Then we struggle with moving on to the next task. Any corrections typically make him fairly angry.
I have the results back now & met with the facility to go over them but really feel like they did not explain anything as to what these mean. Can you shed some light for me on these scores & how they relate to my son? He was officially diagnosed with ASD (high functioning), ADHD, AD, and DMDD. I really feel that his is highly intellectual but don’t see that reflected in these scores. On test day he had a tantrum for the first 1.5 hours of the session. He does not do well with unfamiliar settings or people. How accurate do you feel this testing is when under distress?
Verbal Comp105
Visual Spacial 86
Fluid Reasoning 111
Working Memory 82
Processing Speed 91
Full Scale IQ 90
Testing is a very tricky thing. Emotional issues can impact testing results. I had a student this week stop working in the middle of a timed test and put his head on the table, with encouragement he starting working again. Clearly, he did not produce as much work in the time allotted as he could have. Is his score valid? I think the score is valid in that it is all he could that day and clearly the task was challenging for him. However, I do not think the score is a valid presentation of his potential, so in his report I noted that due to his behavior in testing the IQ score was not a valid indication of his potential. The score does present that he is not currently working to his true ability due his low frustration tolerance and lack of strategies to assist him when he is overwhelmed.
Student with ASD and ADHD often have difficulty with testing conditions. The scores are based on national norms, so while your son may indeed have more intellectual potential than the testing result indicate, he not currently able to demonstrate those skills in the testing situation while other students his age can. Your goal now is to help your child build the executive functioning skills of flexible thinking and behavioral regulation that will help him learn to control his mind and body so that he can perform to his potential. Once he has those skills you can have him re-evaluated and hopefully he will score more in alignment with his true potential.
My son is very carefree and tends to slip ‘under the radar’ a lot. He is very bright and does well in class but does struggle with getting his words out in to paper and socially misinterprets what people ask him, and then appears not as smart as he is. He takes everything very literally and struggles with social skills. He resells stories but gets lost when talking and often the point is missed. He also has trouble remembering things from only 5 minutes before. he had the WISC IV assessment performed 2 years ago and his results were:
VCI 47 percentile rank
PRI 84%
WMI 91%
PSI 58%
FSIQ 77%
It was noted that there was a significant difference in verbal and comprehension and perceptual reasoning, perceptual reasoning and working memory, and working memory and processing speed. He had some problems understanding the letter number sequence subtext so the arithmetic subtlest was substituted.
Are you able to let ,e know your opinion in where he stands and how we could help him? We have other children with Autism (high functioning) and ADHD also.
Thanks in advance,
I can not diagnose anything as I did not do the evaluation and there is not really enough information to give any specific guidance, but given your description of him it makes me think of a Non-Verbal Learning disability.
Diagnosing NLD is difficult. Here is a great article that can help you learn more about NLD. I have only included part of the article; I highly suggest you read the whole article to learn about the traits to look at for NLD. There is a difference between dysgraphia and LND and it is important to know what the differences are. Many dysgraphic students have neuropsychologial deficits which lead to academic issues which are the same as a child with NLD, but they do not have the social/emotional issues.
The Syndrome of Nonverbal Learning Disabilities:
Clinical Description and Applied Aspects by Michael A. Roman
http://www.nldontheweb.org/nldadvancedreading/nldclinicaldescription.html
Edited article
Introduction
The syndrome of nonverbal learning disabilities (NVLD) includes a number of specific, potentially debilitating symptoms. Rourke (1995a) has grouped these into three major areas:
1. neuropsychological deficits, include difficulties with
• tactile and visual perception,
• psychomotor coordination,
• tactile and visual attention,
• nonverbal memory,
• reasoning,
• executive functions, and
• specific aspects of speech and language
2. academic deficits,
• in math calculations,
• mathematical reasoning,
• reading comprehension,
• specific aspects of written language, and
• handwriting are primary academic concerns
3. social-emotional/adaptational deficits.
• problems with social perception and social interaction.
• Children with this disorder are also seen as having substantially increased risk for internalized forms of psychopathology, primarily anxiety and depression.
While the NVLD syndrome has only recently been described in detail (Rourke, 1987, 1989), a number of important articles and two major books have been dedicated to descriptions of the disorder (Rourke, 1989, 1995a). Despite this fact, the syndrome is unfamiliar to many psychologists, diagnosticians, and educators. There is no formal provision under federal special education law recognizing the existence of nonverbal learning disability as a handicapping condition. In most cases, children with this disorder are best classified as Other Health Impaired. Because they may also have specific motor skills deficits, problems with math, social interactional difficulties, and/or emotional disturbances, some of these children may also be appropriately classified as orthopedically handicapped, learning disabled, or emotionally disturbed. This may be particularly appropriate for cases of neurologically acquired NVLD rather than the more common developmental cases of the disorder.
Reply
Setting up a strong support system for your son and helping him build coping skills will help him move toward independence. Using the scaffolding system, you give support while a skill is being developed and then slowly take it away as the student is able to perform on his own. Here is an edited article that outlines many suggestions. The website LDonline is a great resource,http://www.ldonline.org/indepth/nonverbal.
Developing an Educational Plan for the Student with NLD
By: Sue Thompson, M.A., C.E. (1998)
Read the full article at: http://www.ldonline.org/article/6119/
Has difficulty coping with changes in routine and transitions
• Providing a predictable and safe environment with a consistent daily routine;
• Minimizing transitions and giving several verbal cues to the student before transitions;
• Furnishing the child’s parents with a schedule of activities so they can “rehearse” (preview and prepare) for the following day with their child and make sure he has the necessary supplies required for the day’s activities;
• Posting a simple written schedule on the blackboard at the beginning of each day in primary grades;
• Explaining the daily agenda to the older child so he can begin to internalize the structure of his school day;
• Writing out a high school student’s daily schedule on a card (with any changes in routine highlighted) that can be carried from class to class, so it is always readily available.
Has difficulty generalizing previously learned information
• Never expecting the student to automatically generalize instructions or concepts;
• Using language as the bridge to tie new situations to old learning;
• Reviewing past information before presenting new concepts;
• Verbally pointing out similarities, differences and connections;
• Verbally indicating generalizations which can be drawn in various situations;
• Methodically discussing the cause-and-effect relationships of events and situations with the student.
Has difficulty following multi-step instructions
• Writing out and/or tape recording multi-step instructions;
• Numbering and presenting instructions in the most efficient sequence;
• Breaking all tasks down into manageable segments and presenting them a few at a time;
• Making sure the student understands your instructions- don’t assume that repeating them back to you means that he will remember and can follow through;
• Pairing the student with NLD with a nondisabled “buddy” who can remind him of “the next step;”
• \Teaching the student mnemonic devices for short term memory enhancement;
• Checking with the student at frequent intervals to be sure he is not “lost” or confused.
Makes very literal translations
• Explaining what you mean by the things you say which may be misinterpreted;
• Simplifying and breaking-down abstract concepts;
• Starting with concrete concepts and images and slowly moving to abstract concepts and images, at a pace set by the student;
• Understanding that metaphors, emotional nuances, multiple levels of meanings, and relationship issues as presented in novels will not be understood unless explained;
• Teaching the student to say “I’m not sure what you mean” or “That doesn’t make sense to me” to give her a specific vocabulary to help her decipher your intent.
Asks too many questions
• Answering the student’s questions whenever it is possible and practical (other students in the class may actually have the same questions, but be lacking in the verbal abilities to ask them);
• Starting the other students on the assignment and then individually answering the rest of this student’s questions;
• Designating a specific time during the day when you can continue a discussion which needs to end at the moment;
• Telling the student you only have time to answer three questions right now (a specific number is important – – don’t say “a few”), but that you will be glad to answer three more of his questions during the recess break;
• Specifically teaching the student when it is appropriate to ask for help (i.e. if he will be unable to continue his assignment unless something he doesn’t understand is explained to him) and the appropriate methods of doing so;
• Explicitly teaching the rules of polite social conduct, so that the child does not constantly interrupt class activities with his questions.
Is easily overwhelmed
• Diffusing potentially weighty situations as early on as possible;
• Minimizing environmental stimuli (especially visual and tactile);
• Having a consistent strategy to employ when the child can no longer cope due to overstimulation, frustration or confusion;
• Allowing the child to abstain from participating in activities when she demonstrates any signs of overload;
• Eliminating all nightly homework assignments;
• Implementing a modified schedule or other creative programming strategy.
May experience heightened sensory experiences
• Preparing the environment for the child (eliminating known sensory stressors);
• Reducing distractions and situations contributing to sensory overload;
• Focusing on one sensory modality at a time (avoiding multi-sensory approaches to instruction);
• Allowing modifications as needed to deal with sensitivity issues (protecting the child from sounds that hurt his ears or avoiding the use of fluorescent lights in the classroom);
• Talking in a low whisper to a child with extreme auditory sensitivity;
• Ensuring that this child is placed in a classroom location with the least amount of distraction (usually up at the front of the room, away from visual and auditory sources of “clutter”).
May develop secondary issues with stress and anxiety
• Previewing and preparing for all novel situations and transitions in advance;
• Providing a consistent and predictable daily routine;
• Gradually exposing this child to new activities, teachers, classes, schools, etc.;
• Ensuring that this child is safe from physical and emotional abuse; · Avoiding sudden and unexpected surprises;
• Thoroughly preparing the child in advance for field trips, modified schedules, or other changes, regardless of how minimal;
• Talking the child through stressful situations or (non-punitively) removing her from the stressful situation;
• Providing personal space in the resource room or other designated area for regrouping and relaxation.
Imparts the “illusion of competency”
• Providing a highly individualized educational program;
• Applying age and grade-level expectations with flexibility;
• Emphasizing the strong academic skills and gifts of the child with NLD by creating cooperative learning situations in which his proficient verbal, reading, oral spelling, vocabulary, and memory skills will be showcased to advantage (and his difficulties with writing can be de-emphasized);
• Never assuming this child understands something just because he can parrot back what you have just said;
• Never assuming this child understands what he has read, just because he is a “proficient” reader (has excellent word recognition);
• Offering added verbal explanations when the child seems “lost” or registers obvious confusion.
Hi Dr Mullins,
Last year my 6 yr old ID twins underwent the WISC-IV. (Now 7 years old)
We are now having behavioural issues with one twin (the one who scored slightly higher across the tests). He is refusing to write in class ‘it’s boring’, and is being disruptive to other children. He excels in Maths and reading, and can spell. He will use ipad or computer to write stories, and will write at home if he desires to. He gets frustrated very easily. He experiences anxiety in the classroom and in the playground if things aren’t going his own way or people aren’t abiding by the rules. He is so focused on tasks, it is very difficult to break focus and move to next activity. He does not cope well with a change in plans. He has no motivation to achieve. He loves to read and would do this all day if he could. His test results were:
– FSIQ could not be interpreted due to significant variances in index scores.
– GAI 113 (81%)
– VCI 100 (50%)
– PRI 123 (94%)
– WMI 138 (99%) (high in Letter-Number Sequencing)
– PSI 100 (50%)
– CPI not interpretable due to variances
The school is suggesting we undertake further assessments, including occupational therapy. I don’t feel like it is a fine motor issue, as I said, he can write, he just won’t. I wonder if this is do to his anxiety, or the fact that other things like maths and reading come so naturally to him whereas writing requires effort. Do you think his test scores give any indication as to what might be going on for him, or do you think this is purely a behavioural issue? I am reluctant to manage it as though he is being naughty, if there might be something that might be underlying for him.
For comparison, his twin tested
– FSIQ 114 (82%)
– GAI (77%)
– VCI 102 (55%)
– PRI 117 (87%)
– WMI 120 (91%)
– PSI 106 (66%)
– CPI 85%ile.
I would appreciate any strategies or insight you might have.
Thanks
What I would focus on is his frustration and anxiety. From your description your son has difficulty shifting from one task or idea to another. He is rigid in his thinking and therefore has trouble with changes. The issue of his focus suggests that he may be over focusing on tasks. I would suggest that you investigate Hyperfocused ADHD and see if it matches your son.
In the article Hyperfocus: The Flip Side of ADHD? Psychiatrist Edward Hallowell, prefers to use the term “flow” than hyperfocus. Dr. Hallowell says, flow is when “you’re doing something that really matters to you that is challenging.” Flow is different than getting lost in a T.V. or computer screen, rather he call that “screen sucking”. Flow is “optimal,” he says. Screen sucking is more like “stupor.”
But what connects them is they are both different modes of intense attention. ADHD, Dr. Hallowell says, is not a deficit of attention but “an abundance of attention, a wandering of attention, and the problem is to regulate it. People with ADD can pay super attention, but when they’re not interested their mind goes somewhere else.”
Dear Dr. Mullin,
Thank for all your efforts in answering all previous messages during the last years.
I just did the Wechsler Adult test and frankly speaking I am a bit lost on how to interpret and act upon my results. I may put you out of your comfort zone since I am a 30 years old adult.
Giving a general IQ number in my case wouldn’t make any sense since I have heterogenous profile.
In perceptual reasoning and processing speed I am had average scores, respectively 99-112 and 91-109 with the particularity of scoring high for 3d reasoning than 2d. On working memory I scored between 110 and 125 with an “everest effect”: the higher the difficulty was the higher I scored.
As for verbal comprehension I finished with 140 to 150 and above, since the test couldn’t find my limit in this area.
This wide gap clearly had some negative externalities regarding my childhood development as well as my work life.
What would be your professional suggestion? Obviously I do not need a full explanation rather tips to put me in a path to move forward.
Looking at all theses parents doing test for their children (all the above messages), I am shocked how far behind my home country is in regards to testing children.
Kind regards,
Frédéric
Your verbal skills are significantly stronger than your other skills. This often causes frustration, as I have noted in the Frustration Profile article. Given that you are an adult and your other Index scores are average to above average, I am assuming that you are done with schooling, but still want to perform better in your life. My tips for you would be:
• Be patient with yourself.
• Make plans to help yourself in the areas that are challenging for you. Verbal processing is your strength, use it to talk yourself through tasks that challenge you.
• Use dictation software to help you get your ideas out quickly.
Last year I had to work hard to get an IEP for my very bright son who has articulation problems. WISC IV was part of the process and it revealed that his Processing Speed and Working Memory are significantly lower than his other numbers:
FSIQ: 135 (99%)
Perceptual Reasoning: 145 (99%)
Processing Speed: 103 (58%)
Verbal Comprehension: 140 (99%)
Working Memory: 107 (68%)
I was told by the school psychologist not to worry about the lower processing speed and working memory because they are “still average”. My son, age 7, is now in 2nd grade, and we’re seeing how the discrepancy may be an issue for him. His teacher recently started a “Mad Math Minute” sort of program, and my son has struggled greatly with writing the facts down in the allotted time. Verbally, however, he is completely fluent (he entered kindergarten doing these facts). His teacher offered to talk to the school about getting a 504 to give him extra time on tests, knowing this could be an issue in later grades. I thought she would be taken more seriously as a highly experienced teacher vs. me, “that mom”, but she was told the same thing that I was: “He’s still average”, and therefore probably wouldn’t qualify for a 504.
These roadblocks are very frustrating for me because my son is unable to show his full potential. The school does little if anything to support gifted students as it is, but he is unable to show what he is capable of. If it were not for his IEP, I doubt he would have been identified as gifted. I’m worried about his self confidence taking a hit. Based on his numbers, do you think I’m overreacting, or should I pursue a 504 for him?
I answered your question in my blog How to Help a Gifted Student who has Average Processing Speed and Working Memory Skills
I would try and get a 504 for him if you can.
Hi,
I came across this page when searching “discrepancy between Verbal and Perceptual Reasoning scores”. My 8 year old son took the WISC at 7, and got 98 (45%) on Verbal but 108-70%(123-94% scoring without Picture Concepts included). I can’t find any information on why there would be such a discrepancy between these two scores and what it means. His full scores are below. He was diagnosed with Dyslexia, Dysgraphia, ADHD (primarily inattentive)- all Mild. The Psychologist said he learns well visually but has significant delays in processing speed, concept formation, expressive language, auditory and long term visual memory, visual-motor coordination (73% ability to perceive visual stimuli but 18% in motor coordination to copy visual stimuli) and attention controls. We tried Concerta for his ADD but we didn’t see a difference on the lowest dose so we upped the dose. He had a very bad reaction to this, to where he would cry if anyone spoke- his already sensitive hearing became a million times worse on the medication, so we stopped. I’ve been looking into Aspergers, APD, twice exceptional—anything I can try to find to figure out my son. I’ve wondered about Aspergers but thinking he doesn’t fit the high Verbal IQ profile (maybe because of his Dyslexia or Expressive Language issues?) I know he’s so bright but his learning differences hold him back. He’s only in 2nd grade so he’s doing well in school with his accommodations but not sure how he’ll keep up when things become more challenging. He’s only receiving OG tutoring for his Dyslexia at this point, which has brought him back up to grade level on reading. Any insight you can provide would be helpful and much appreciated!
Verbal Index- 98 (45%)
Similarities- 8
Vocab- 10
Comp- 11
Info (general knowledge)- 6
Percep Reason Index- 108/123(without picture concept) 70/94%
Block Design- 14
Pic Concept- 8
Matrix Reasoning- 12
Pic Completion- 15
Working Memory- 91 (27%)
Digital Span- 8
Letter Number Seq- 9
Processing Speed- 85 (16%)
Coding- 8
Symbol Search- 7
FSIQ- 96 (39%)
GAI- 103 (58%)
WIAT-III
Receptive vocab- 45%
Comp of Oral Conversation- 47%
Expressive Vocab- 81% (noted that his expressive language deficits occur at the syntactic level)
Early Reading Skills- 45% (skill were not automatic though)
Word Reading- 9%
Pseudoword Decoding- 27%
Oral Reading Fluency- 30% but oral reading accuracy 23%
Reading Comp- 34%
Spelling- 9%
Sentence Composition- 9% (sentences contained words of higher language level than he could spell)
Math Problem Solving & Numerical Operations- 25-30%. Difficulty on timed tests 18%
Thank you!
I should add that his Dad has wondered if he, himself has Aspergers. He has an IQ of 145. I have Dyslexia and probably Dysgraphia, and Raven’s test put me at about a 130 IQ.
I think you are right to start with addressing the dyslexia. Focusing on building his reading, writing and language skills will allow him to process information more fully. Once these areas of difficulty are remediated you will be better able to see what his learning profile is. At that point you can determine if Asperger or twice exceptional match him.
I noticed that the symbol search score is lower than the coding score. This would indicate that his visual processing skills are a greater hindrance than his motor skills. Have you had his eyes assessed to make sure he is tracking information fluently? Visual tracking issues can significantly impact reading skills.
Hi Melissa,
My 13 yr old son drives me nuts. Here are the WISC4 results from a year and a half ago:
WC +166 (sim +20 voc +22 info +20 comp +20)
PR 108 (block 43 pic 10 matrx 11)
WM 120 (dig 11 arithm 16)
PS 112 (cod 11 symb 13)
FSIQ +135
GAI +144
He despises hand writing but loves drawing, writes horrendously but draws in great technical details, holds pencil with both hands yet types extremely fast.
He is a walking encyclopedia in certain topics, yet constantly struggles with the simple task of keeping track of what and when the homework is due.
Gets easily distracted during homework – ADD style – and blatantly lies about school work, despite clear consequences, just to gain computer gaming time.
Poor work ethic (although can focus under supervised Pomodoro method) yet will dive deep into his favorite subjects of interest.
He is extroverted, a natural speaker and very social, yet has very few friends.
Can talk incessantly transforming a conversation into a monologue, while walking in circles and not keeping eye contact. Also seems to have reduced awareness of surroundings i.e walks on sidewalk looking down.
Resists practice and repetition, thus being average in math.
The above issues were pointed out to him hundreds of times in the past two years alone, yet there is very little progress. I made a lot of attempts to help, and it’s getting to be a discouraging task to say the least.
I am glad I stumbled over your article as it made me dig up the WISC and discover new angles of approach.
Your input would be greatly appreciated
Thank you
Given that your son’s highest score is in Verbal Comprehension and his lowest score in in the Perceptual Reasoning Index I have copied a reply I sent to another parent about NonVerbal Learning Disabilities. I hope that you can find some good suggestions here.
Diagnosing NLD is difficult. Here is a great article that can help you learn more about NLD. I have only included part of the article; I highly suggest you read the whole article to learn about the traits to look at for NLD. There is a difference between dysgraphia and NLD and it is important to know what the differences are. Many dysgraphic students have neuropsychologial deficits which lead to academic issues which are the same as a child with NLD, but they do not have the social/emotional issues.
The Syndrome of Nonverbal Learning Disabilities:
Clinical Description and Applied Aspects by Michael A. Roman
http://www.nldontheweb.org/nldadvancedreading/nldclinicaldescription.html
Edited article
Introduction
The syndrome of nonverbal learning disabilities (NVLD) includes a number of specific, potentially debilitating symptoms. Rourke (1995a) has grouped these into three major areas:
1. neuropsychological deficits, include difficulties with
• tactile and visual perception,
• psychomotor coordination,
• tactile and visual attention,
• nonverbal memory,
• reasoning,
• executive functions, and
• specific aspects of speech and language
2. academic deficits,
• in math calculations,
• mathematical reasoning,
• reading comprehension,
• specific aspects of written language, and
• handwriting are primary academic concerns
3. social-emotional/adaptational deficits.
• problems with social perception and social interaction.
• Children with this disorder are also seen as having substantially increased risk for internalized forms of psychopathology, primarily anxiety and depression.
While the NVLD syndrome has only recently been described in detail (Rourke, 1987, 1989), a number of important articles and two major books have been dedicated to descriptions of the disorder (Rourke, 1989, 1995a). Despite this fact, the syndrome is unfamiliar to many psychologists, diagnosticians, and educators. There is no formal provision under federal special education law recognizing the existence of nonverbal learning disability as a handicapping condition. In most cases, children with this disorder are best classified as Other Health Impaired. Because they may also have specific motor skills deficits, problems with math, social interactional difficulties, and/or emotional disturbances, some of these children may also be appropriately classified as orthopedically handicapped, learning disabled, or emotionally disturbed. This may be particularly appropriate for cases of neurologically acquired NVLD rather than the more common developmental cases of the disorder.
Reply
Setting up a strong support system for your son and helping him build coping skills will help him move toward independence. Using the scaffolding system, you give support while a skill is being developed and then slowly take it away as the student is able to perform on his own. Here is an edited article that outlines many suggestions. The website LDonline is a great resource, http://www.ldonline.org/indepth/nonverbal.
Developing an Educational Plan for the Student with NLD
By: Sue Thompson, M.A., C.E. (1998)
Read the full article at: http://www.ldonline.org/article/6119/
Has difficulty coping with changes in routine and transitions
• Providing a predictable and safe environment with a consistent daily routine;
• Minimizing transitions and giving several verbal cues to the student before transitions;
• Furnishing the child’s parents with a schedule of activities so they can “rehearse” (preview and prepare) for the following day with their child and make sure he has the necessary supplies required for the day’s activities;
• Posting a simple written schedule on the blackboard at the beginning of each day in primary grades;
• Explaining the daily agenda to the older child so he can begin to internalize the structure of his school day;
• Writing out a high school student’s daily schedule on a card (with any changes in routine highlighted) that can be carried from class to class, so it is always readily available.
Has difficulty generalizing previously learned information
• Never expecting the student to automatically generalize instructions or concepts;
• Using language as the bridge to tie new situations to old learning;
• Reviewing past information before presenting new concepts;
• Verbally pointing out similarities, differences and connections;
• Verbally indicating generalizations which can be drawn in various situations;
• Methodically discussing the cause-and-effect relationships of events and situations with the student.
Has difficulty following multi-step instructions
• Writing out and/or tape recording multi-step instructions;
• Numbering and presenting instructions in the most efficient sequence;
• Breaking all tasks down into manageable segments and presenting them a few at a time;
• Making sure the student understands your instructions- don’t assume that repeating them back to you means that he will remember and can follow through;
• Pairing the student with NLD with a nondisabled “buddy” who can remind him of “the next step;”
• \Teaching the student mnemonic devices for short term memory enhancement;
• Checking with the student at frequent intervals to be sure he is not “lost” or confused.
Makes very literal translations
• Explaining what you mean by the things you say which may be misinterpreted;
• Simplifying and breaking-down abstract concepts;
• Starting with concrete concepts and images and slowly moving to abstract concepts and images, at a pace set by the student;
• Understanding that metaphors, emotional nuances, multiple levels of meanings, and relationship issues as presented in novels will not be understood unless explained;
• Teaching the student to say “I’m not sure what you mean” or “That doesn’t make sense to me” to give her a specific vocabulary to help her decipher your intent.
Asks too many questions
• Answering the student’s questions whenever it is possible and practical (other students in the class may actually have the same questions, but be lacking in the verbal abilities to ask them);
• Starting the other students on the assignment and then individually answering the rest of this student’s questions;
• Designating a specific time during the day when you can continue a discussion which needs to end at the moment;
• Telling the student you only have time to answer three questions right now (a specific number is important – – don’t say “a few”), but that you will be glad to answer three more of his questions during the recess break;
• Specifically teaching the student when it is appropriate to ask for help (i.e. if he will be unable to continue his assignment unless something he doesn’t understand is explained to him) and the appropriate methods of doing so;
• Explicitly teaching the rules of polite social conduct, so that the child does not constantly interrupt class activities with his questions.
Is easily overwhelmed
• Diffusing potentially weighty situations as early on as possible;
• Minimizing environmental stimuli (especially visual and tactile);
• Having a consistent strategy to employ when the child can no longer cope due to overstimulation, frustration or confusion;
• Allowing the child to abstain from participating in activities when she demonstrates any signs of overload;
• Eliminating all nightly homework assignments;
• Implementing a modified schedule or other creative programming strategy.
May experience heightened sensory experiences
• Preparing the environment for the child (eliminating known sensory stressors);
• Reducing distractions and situations contributing to sensory overload;
• Focusing on one sensory modality at a time (avoiding multi-sensory approaches to instruction);
• Allowing modifications as needed to deal with sensitivity issues (protecting the child from sounds that hurt his ears or avoiding the use of fluorescent lights in the classroom);
• Talking in a low whisper to a child with extreme auditory sensitivity;
• Ensuring that this child is placed in a classroom location with the least amount of distraction (usually up at the front of the room, away from visual and auditory sources of “clutter”).
May develop secondary issues with stress and anxiety
• Previewing and preparing for all novel situations and transitions in advance;
• Providing a consistent and predictable daily routine;
• Gradually exposing this child to new activities, teachers, classes, schools, etc.;
• Ensuring that this child is safe from physical and emotional abuse; · Avoiding sudden and unexpected surprises;
• Thoroughly preparing the child in advance for field trips, modified schedules, or other changes, regardless of how minimal;
• Talking the child through stressful situations or (non-punitively) removing her from the stressful situation;
• Providing personal space in the resource room or other designated area for regrouping and relaxation.
Imparts the “illusion of competency”
• Providing a highly individualized educational program;
• Applying age and grade-level expectations with flexibility;
• Emphasizing the strong academic skills and gifts of the child with NLD by creating cooperative learning situations in which his proficient verbal, reading, oral spelling, vocabulary, and memory skills will be showcased to advantage (and his difficulties with writing can be de-emphasized);
• Never assuming this child understands something just because he can parrot back what you have just said;
• Never assuming this child understands what he has read, just because he is a “proficient” reader (has excellent word recognition);
• Offering added verbal explanations when the child seems “lost” or registers obvious confusion.
Hello Dr. Mullin, I am finding your site very helpful. Recently my 2nd grader (girl) was evaluated. She was diagnosed with Double Deficit Dyslexia. I have never heard of this before and have been looking for information on it and the best way to help my struggling daughter learn. The evaluator’s who gave her the test suggested we put her in a LD school, she currently goes to a private school and besides the reading part (ha ha) she seems very happy with school and has a wonderful network of friends. I am trying to understand what is the best method for her to learn. I have scheduled a outside tutor to start 3 days a week using the Orton Gillingham method. I am not sure this is the best method for her Double Deficit diagnosis or should I be looking at other methods of helping her? I should also mention that ADHD and ADD were not diagnosed but NOT ruled out.
Her WISC-V scores are as follows:
Full Scale 118- 88%
Verbal 95-37%
similarities 8- 25%
Vocab. 10- 50%
Visual Spatial 126- 96%
Block Design 17- 98%
Visual 12-75%
Fluid Reasoning 97- 42%
Matrix Reasoning 11- 63%
Figure Weights 8- 25%
Working Memory 132- 98%
Digit Span 18- 99%
Picture Span 14 91%
Processing Speed 120 -91%
Coding 15- 95%
Symbol Search 12-75%
Ancillary Scores
Nonverbal Index 121- 92%
General Ability Index 105- 63%
Cognitive Proficiency Index 132- 98%
Any guidance on the most effective methods to teach my daughter would be greatly appreciated.
The Double-Deficit Hypothesis was identified by Maryanne Wolf and Beth O’Brien of Tufts University. Here is what they found in their research:
There are three major subtypes of dyslexic readers who can be characterized by the presence, absence, or combination of the two core deficits in phonology and naming speed.
• In other words, there are poor readers who have only phonological deficits without differences in naming speed.
• Conversely, there are readers who have adequate phonological and word attack skills, but who have early naming-speed deficits and later comprehension deficits. First described by Rudel (1985), these are the children who would be missed by the vast majority of our diagnostic batteries, because their decoding is accurate.
• The most intractable subtype is characterized by both deficits; children with both or “double deficits” represent the most severely impaired subtype in all aspects of reading, particularly in reading fluency; this is what we call the Double-Deficit Hypothesis.
I really like her theory and the program she created: The RAVE-O program (Retrieval, Automaticity, Vocabulary Enrichment, and Orthography) simultaneously addresses both the need for automaticity in phonological, orthographic, morphosyntactic, and semantic systems and the importance of teaching explicit connections among these three systems. RAVE-O paired with a phonic program, like Orton Gillingham method, creates a well rounded reading program for a student with Double-Deficit Dyslexia.
Dr. Mullins,
I want to join all of the other parents who have made posts here, in thanking you for aiding in parents understanding of what we are receiving as reports on our children. The Frustration Profile fits my son, very well. My son, now aged 8 in Grade 3, has had diagnoses of both ADHD and Sensory Processing Disorder. He is taking medication to aid with the ADHA (although we as parents are not fully certain of its effectiveness!). He has received OT support for the SPD, but the strategies have never been fully integrated into the classroom – as several of his teachers have not ever heard of SPD. His behaviour at school and poor organizational abilities have had him flagged for IEP from the first grade. Recently, he has undergone testing using the WISC IC, GAI, Canadian Norms) for potential placement in a “gifted program”
The report we received gave us very little information to work with – especially in understanding what the results are to mean and/or how there are to be used. I share with you the “FULL DETAILS” of the report we received below:
Behaviour Observations
XXXX Presented as an alert and cooperative student who appeared to put forth his best effort during the assessment. The
assessment is considered to provide a valid estimate of the current functioning.
Assessment Findings
Tasks within the Verbal Comprehension and Perceptual do minas of the WISC-IV were administered. A combination of these two
domains yields a GAI in the High Average range (86th percentile). His Verbal Comprehension was in the High Average range
(82nd percentile). His Perceptual Reasoning Index was in the High Average range (82nd percentile).
That’s all we have from the School Psychologist – and just reading through the posts of other parents I can see that we are lacking a complete profile.
Can you please offer some guidance for us as parents moving forward? How should we prepare for the discussion with our school’s psychologist? How do we guide this discussion so that strategies for program supports are developed for our son and that we do not come off as “too knowledgeable” for the school team – for they seem to be nervous of parents who are aware!! I actually want us to be prepared with questions to guide the discussion in a positive way – but not to appear to be the experts in the room. Our bottom line is how to we move to the place of finding strategies to assist XXXX in reaching his full potential.
I look forward to your response.
Cheers,
Darrell
It appears that your school only performed enough testing to get a GAI score. WISC–IV GAI provides a summary score composed of the Verbal Comprehension and Perceptual Reasoning Indexes. The Full Scale Index score includes all four indexes: Verbal Comprehension, Perceptual Reasoning, Working Memory and Processing Speed. For children with neuropsychological issues such as learning disorders, Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, and other similar issues, difficulties with working memory and processing speed may result in lower FSIQ scores (Wechsler, 2003), making the GAI a better indicator of potential.
What do you ask them? I would ask if they did any academic testing, especially measuring fluency issues. Weak working memory and processing speed issues can impact reading, math and writing fluency. Generally the IQ tests are compared to the achievement scores to see if there is ability–achievement discrepancy (AAD) indicating that some problem exists. Your child’s GAI is strong, how is his school achievement? Is there a discrepancy between his achievement and potential, which would entitle him to services? Every school district has it’s own guidelines for how they assess and qualify students for services; it would be worth talking to someone in your area who knows how your school handles student needs
Dear Doctor Mullin:
Thank you for all of your work. My son has this profile as well, and we finally took him out of public school and put him into a dyslexia school, where he’s doing great. I was tickled pink that you referred people to the Retrain the Brain product — I used it a long time ago and liked it and the Waldorf form drawing things.
I am finishing my first book, which is meant to be an overview to the entire experience of having a LD kid for parents. As part of that, I’m spending time today trying to research something that I could swear a school psychologist told me years ago. My son was about 130 verbal and 80 working memory/processing. I think that the professional told me that if there was more than 10 or 15 points between different subtests, that it invalidated the IQ test results. Can you please talk about that?
We ran into this as a problem because one professional said that the full IQ test number was invalid, so they just used a subset result. Another professional (different year) simply added the numbers together, told us that our child’s IQ was around 100, so any troubles he had were just because he was … dumb.
Yup. They said that. And he entered that school with a full diagnosis from Stanford’s Children’s Health Center, that they chose to overlook.
So: 1. Wide range in results invalidates IQ test? For WISC? Woodcock Johnson?
2. Would you be interested in being a reviewer for this book (series?)
We aren’t selling a service or product. We’re referring different thought leaders, and are just concerned with giving parents information that they need.
thanks!
Cate
How scores are interpreted is complex. The new WISC V offers flexibility in how to view scores. In the printout of scores it even includes a chart indicating significant differences that can be used to help highlight strengths and weaknesses. For students like your son the use of the General Ability Index (GAI) would be the best score to use to identify his potential. Here is what I wrote in response to another comment: WISC–IV GAI provides a summary score composed of the Verbal Comprehension and Perceptual Reasoning Indexes. The Full Scale Index score includes all four indexes: Verbal Comprehension, Perceptual Reasoning, Working Memory and Processing Speed. For children with neuropsychological issues such as learning disorders, Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, and other similar issues, difficulties with working memory and processing speed may result in lower FSIQ scores (Wechsler, 2003), making the GAI a better indicator of potential.
Good evening
My daughter is 15 years old and recently had a full neuropsychological evaluation exam. I noticed when she started taking HS classes in 8th grade she began having great difficulty. She was diagnosed with ADD one year ago and is on medication. I still notice her having difficulty retaining information and comprehending what was said. Her grades are not consistent and trying to get her to stay on task and study is becoming harder as she gets older. She will be 16 in February. She will have to take the SATs next year if she wants to apply to colleges.
Her scores from WISC-V IQ test-
VCI 98
VSI 84
FRI 91
WMI 79
PSI 108
FSIQ 91
Is it a possibility she just didn’t put effort into the testing? It was broken up into 2 sessions.
Is that normal to see a higher PSI score with ADD?
We are having her 504 meeting in January and I am bringing the results. Do you have any input and anything I can recommend at the 504?
Thank you
A student with PSI as the highest index score may indicate a child who is quick to respond, but may not be taking the time to think first (an executive functioning skill). Working memory (WM), attention and executive functioning (EF) skills are often connected. It may be worth investigation this more. You can read more in my article on metacognition, executive functioning and you can take our Executive functioning quiz
Working memory is your daughter’s lowest score. The Working Memory Index is often low in children with ADHD. I do recommend Cogmed to help build working memory skills. One way to look at this that the child with ADHD has to work harder to keep information in mind, so rather than being able to both hold and process the information, the child is working hard just to hold the information and often “loses” it before he can process it. This makes learning difficult.
One of the common issues with ADHD is that students miss information when it is being taught. ADHD affects working memory and this hinders a child’s ability to work with multiple bits of information at one time. Basically due to ADHD your child has not built the foundation for focusing and working on a task, she needs guidance and practice to learn this skills. Learning metacognitive strategies like: STOP, THINK, PLAN, DO can guide your child as she starts a task. When it come to writing something down she needs help to outline it, organize it and then write it.
Here are some Accommodations Available to Qualified Students With ADHD form the article from About.com:
• Preferential seating (away from distractions – away from door, window, pencil sharpener or distracting students, near the teacher, a quiet place to complete school work or tests, seating student by a good role model/classroom “buddy”)
• Extended time for testing (especially helpful for students who tend to retrieve and process information at a slower speed and so take longer with testing)
• Modification of test format and delivery (oral exams, use of a calculator, chunking or breaking down tests into smaller sections to complete, providing breaks between sections, quiet place to complete tests, multiple choice or fill in the blank test format instead of essay)
• Modifications in classroom and homework assignments (shortened assignments to compensate for amount of time it takes to complete, extended time to complete assignments, reduced amount of written work, breaking down assignments and long-term projects into segments with separate due dates for completion of each segment, allowing student to dictate or tape record responses, allowing student to use computer for written work, oral reports or hands on projects to demonstrate learning of material)
• Assistance with note taking (providing student with a copy of class notes, peer assistance with note taking, audio taping of lectures)
• Modification of teaching methods (multisensory instruction, visual cues and hands on activities, highlight or underline important parts of a task, cue student in on key points of lesson, providing guided lecture notes, outlines and study guides, reduce demands on memory, teach memory skills such as mnemonics, visualization, oral rehearsal and repetitive practice, use books on tape, assistance with organization, prioritization andproblem solving)
• Providing clear and simple directions for homework and class assignments (repeating directions, posting homework assignments on board, supplementing verbal instructions with visual/written instructions)
• Appointing “row captains” or “homework buddies” who remind students to write down assignments and who collect work to turn in to teacher
• One-on-one tutoring
• Adjusting class schedule (schedule those classes that require most mental focus at beginning of school day, schedule in regular breaks for student throughout the day to allow for physical movement and “brain rest”, adjustments to nonacademic time)
• Adjustments to grading (modifying weight given to exams, breaking test down into segments and grading segments separately, partial credit for late homework with full credit for make-up work)
• Organizational assistance (including teacher/school representative meeting with student at end of each class or end day to check that homework assignments are written completely in homework notebook and needed books are in back pack, providing organizational folders and planners, color coding)
• Extra set of books for student to keep at home
• Highlighted textbooks and workbooks
• Use of positive behavioral management strategies (including frequent monitoring, feedback, prompts, redirection and reinforcement)
• Setting up a system of communication (such as a notebook for weekly progress report, regular emails or phone calls) between parent and teacher/school representative in order to keep each other informed about the student’s progress or difficulties. Notify parent of homework and project assignments and due dates
I am also very relieved to have found this website. And I would also like to thank you for shedding light on all of this. My third and youngest son is now age 10. He had been noticeably unhappy with schoolwork in his (Irish Language) school from age 6 to age 8.
He often felt stupid, so his self-esteem suffered. His teachers felt that he didn’t always try his best, so he didn’t always have their support. When he was turning 9 I got him assessed privately and was amazed to find that he was 3 years delayed on his English reading. I brought this back to his school. His learning support was intermittent, as the teachers found him to be reasonably intelligent and not a severe (therefore deserving) case. In order to access better support for him I subsequently requested that he be formally assessed. This was recently done through the school.
He was found to have a mild SLD of a dyslexic type.
Having gotten the results I now realise that I hadn’t fully understood the scores of the test or how to apply them, nor what they mean for my son.
Thankfully I found your website through researching the WISC scores on the web. It is so helpful in decoding the report.
His results on the WISC IV are:
Verbal Comprehension 126 96pc
Perceptual Reasoning 106 66pc
Working Memory 104 61pc
Processing Speed 85 16pc
GAI 119 90pc
His reading has improved since the report was done however:
On the report his spelling is at 16 percentile, and his word reading is 19 percentile.
I had previously done a lot of work at home to help with his literacy, we followed on online daily programme and his reading had already improved significantly. One of his current difficulties is with maths. He cannot retain the tables enough to use them to calculate problems for fractions. He works very well one on one, but this is not possible all of the time.
Now our time in the afternoons is taken up with an hour’s homework. He would never get the full amount done but his teacher is aware of this now. He also would require my full attention during this time.
Thankfully he is very happy in school and has a lovely group of friends. I do worry though at how slow it can be for him to grasp new academic concepts in school. And worry at how this will impact on him when he moves on to secondary (High) school. His subject range then will be a lot bigger, and he won’t have the support of the smaller group of good friends. Your profile of the child always being slow with the output fits with him perfectly…
I did get him seen by an Opthalmologist, and he has some pattern glare but nothing major otherwise.
What I really would love to get is advice as how best to help him at this stage.
Thank you.
I think my new post on the book Bright Kids Who Can’t Keep Up will give you some good ideas. The book explains processing speed and interventions. Here is what they say:
Will my child ever get any faster?
1. Changes in processing speed are likely related to the impact of practice and experience. Research on processing speed has shown that the more time someone repeats the task, the more automatic and thus quicker the response becomes.
2. The speed increases are also due to structural changes in the brain that happen naturally as it develops during childhood.
These two factors, experience and growth, are crucial to increasing processing speed during the childhood and adolescent years.
Practical strategies for accommodating slow processing speed at school
• Advocate for extra time
• Teach time management skills
• Keep an extra set a textbook at home
• Take advantage of technology is a timesaver
o Use of the computer
• Ask for examples of completed homework for your child to review before doing a assignment
• Make sure assignments are clearly structured and uncluttered
o Clear beginning and end points
o No redundancy: allow students to only do enough problems to demonstrate that they understand the concepts rather than do many practice problems after they understand.
o Simple uncluttered visuals
• Avoid multitasking
o Ask for alternatives to notetaking during lectures: getting notes in advance, getting an outline, getting an auto recording
What are your thoughts on slow processing and French Immersion, currently re-evaluating if this is appropriate for my 8 year old son who is wanting to remain in French however reading/writing are falling behind in both English and French.
Without more information on your son’s learning abilities it is hard to make any recommendation. What we know about processing speed is that automaticity makes things faster. So if your son has to learn twice the amount of information and practice it until it is automatic it will be more work for him than only learning the new information in one language. It is not about the 2 languages, rather it is the amount of overall information he needs to process and memorize.
I hope someone can offer me some insight regarding a high school student of mine- she is respectful, attentive, bright, seems to TOTALLY understand the concepts we learn in class, will correctly answer questions in discussion, offer great observations and connections. And then….. on written tests, quizzes and other assignments her responses and explanations defy understanding- Where is she getting those numbers she writes, they are not even in the problem she was given? Why are her words not even forming sentences, or even making sense? Why does she sometimes not even spell her own name correctly on her papers?
Doesn’t seem to be dyscalculia. Or dyslexia. I’ve been looking online at dysgraphia and I thought that was it, but after further reading my take on that is that it’s more of a motor skills or speed type issue., But this seems to be a real disconnect between mental processing and getting those thoughts physically written on paper.
Please Advise! What should I be researching? Recommend websites? Books? Articles? Thanks so MUCH for any advice so I can figure out how to better teach and assess any student with this problem.
I would recommend that she be evaluated by a professional who can look at her overall learning style and offer guidance for interventions. It is important to get the whole picture when trying to understand a student’s challenges. The best resource for information on processing speed is Bright Kids Who Can’t Keep Up: Help Your Child Overcome Slow Processing Speed and Succeed in a Fast-Paced World Paperback – July 18, 2014
by Ellen Braaten PhD (Author), Brian Willoughby PhD (Author)
My son is 11 and was given a WISC-V. His scores were as follows: VCI 118, VSI 117, FRI 97, WM 94, PSI 92, FSIQ 108, GAI 113. My understanding is that there is a significant difference between his FSIQ and GAI, but what does it mean?
I keep thinking this “qualifies” him to be a twice exceptional student. However, I had a meeting at the school the other day (not SpEd- because he doesn’t “qualify” he’s too smart-per the school) and all the teachers say he is not completing work because he is too busy talking with his friends, being a class clown, being lazy. Every teacher said he is fully capable to do the work but that he is choosing not to do the work. How can I interpret his scores and get him the educational setting he needs/unless they’re right and he is defiant 🙁 . He was also given an achievement test the WIAT-III, composite scores were higher in oral language (109), total reading (99) than in written expression or mathematics (89, 94, 96). These were not done for or within a school setting. What does all this mean? Any input would be greatly appreciated!!!
Also, his pre-AP math teacher said she would not recommend any type of SpEd services as this would give him “an easy way out” or “Make him lazy when he is fully capable”.
I am at a loss. If he truly is fully capable and is just being lazy I would like to know.
Looking at the scores you have given your son does look capable. He does not have any scores below the average range. However, the WISC alone does not give all the information needed to identify a learning disability. There are many reasons a child can struggle in school. When I look at test results I look for a difference between subtests, indexes, potential, achievement, behavioral reports, and more. The professional who assessed your child will know the details that can lead to a better understanding of your child’s learning style.
I believe that children want to do well in school, and while some children are lazy most just don’t know what to do or don’t have the underlying skills needed to do the work. You might investigate his executive functioning skills (the ability to break down tasks, get started, do the work, check it, and turn it in), as working memory and processing speed are the skills that cause a difference between the FSIQ and GAI.
Melissa this person’s message regarding their son is very similar to mine. I had left a reply before which you answered.. but I have another question. We had my son’s 504 and the team decided to look more into executive functioning skills so a handful of us filled out the BRIEF. He doesn’t exhibit traits of outbursts, not being to sit still etc.. it’s all in the areas of unorganization, forgetting to write down assignments, bring homework home, studying, losing things, etc. Is executive functioning problems a form of ADD and does medication help with improving those areas that he struggles with.. Medication is the last thing I want to do, but if he could feel good about himself by not feeling like he is a disappointment to his teachers because he doesn’t know why he doesn’t do those things.. he isn’t being defiant. I know his brain works differently. I am anxious to see what the psychologist will recommend after she gathers all the information on the BRIEF. Thanks
An executive functioning deficit can exist without ADHD. Almost all students with ADHD experience issues with executive functioning skills, but not all students with executive functioning issues have ADHD. Medication helps executive functioning skills if there is an attention issue; your son may have Inattentive ADHD (in which case medication may be helpful), or he could just have an executive functioning deficit ( in which case medication is not usually suggested).
There is a lot of literature written about executive functioning. Here are some articles I have written:
Metacognition Helps Build Self Regulation and Executive Functioning Skills
What Does It Mean To Have Weak Executive Functioning Skills?
My child is 7 and had testing recently. Overall he scored lower then I expected. He seems to really understand things like concepts and books for kids much older then him with perfect comprehension and he is good at building things and connecting information from different sources. He is very perceptive, intense and passionate. He remembers an incredible amount from books that are read to him. He seemed like a twice exceptional kid and his teachers even comment on how brilliant he is but that is not what testing shows.
His scores are VCI 127 with extremely high scores in the vocabulary subtext
Visual Spatial 114 Fluid Reasoning 103 with high average in figure weights and low average in Matrix Reasoning which seems off. WM was 94 and PSI was 80. I knew his processing speed was going to be really low. He scored low average in all areas of processing speed. They gave me a full scale score rather then a GAI.
He can read at grade level barely but he is not interested in reading books at that level so he does not like reading. He rather listen to books at a higher level. His real struggle is spelling and writing. He is failing all his spelling tests and writing tests and does not retain what he learns in that area. He writes slowly and really sloppy. He has basic phonemic awareness but he cannot remember all the rules for spelling or when reading. He had a lot of the dyslexia signs but he has good phonemic awareness so I do not know if that is the issue. He does not qualify for help even though he is really struggling with spelling, finishing his work and going off task but I need some way to help him.
I would recommend having his eyes evaluated for tracking issues. Was a measure of rapid naming done? I would be interested to know how he did on that. He may need a reading program that integrates visual, auditory and attention skills. RAVE-O is designed to build reading fluency skills. You don’t say anything about attention issues, but working memory and processing speed can be impacted by attention. Fine motor skills sound like they are weak and should be strengthened.
Here are my recommendations:
Occupational therapy to work on building the fine motor skills for writing.
• The amount of effort it takes students to write makes the whole writing process laborious. The frustrating part for the students is that they have the ideas but it’s too much work to communicate them.
• I recommend the Retrain the Brain program along with Handwriting Without Tears.
• An occupational therapist has additional tools that can be used to build the hand muscles needed for fluent writing.
Vision Therapy, if visual tracking is an issue.
Educational specialists,or tutors can help with reading, organizing language and writing skills.
There are definite attention issues. He does have a hard time focusing on school work and in class. He can hyper focus on topics of interest. Rapid naming scores were around 37 percentile and that does seem to be an area of weakness. His backwards naming part of working memory was also low. There are no tracking issues. He was checked by an eye doctor who does vision therapy. Regular OT sessions are not an option due to cost. It is not a stand alone service in schools here.
My son is similar to yours. He’s ten. We’ve been homeschooling him for two years now, so as his teacher I have had to come up with strategies to overcome his weaknesses and build on his strengths. Your school will probably not be able to help you with this very much. First, the Common Core curriculum, if that is what your school is using, will focus on the skills where he is weakest. Second, they will avoid helping him until he is so far behind that they will have to mark him as learning disabled, which will happen in two or three years. In the meantime, your son will probably learn to think that he is stupid or somehow less than others, will can deeply damage him. This is why we pulled our son out of school. He cannot write because he does not have the “bandwidth” to think his thoughts and do the physical task of writing. Last year and the year before he dictated to me. Now I want him to learn to be more independent in his writing, so I purchased Dragon, which types his speaking. We are just starting that, and it is frustrating to him. But as he masters using the program, he will be able then to focus on how to write by himself. It’s baby steps, and that’s okay. For spelling, you want him to learn the word by seeing it rather than trying to use phonics to spell it. He has a tremendous visual memory, use it. He will be far more successful, less frustrated, and armed with skills with how to cope in a world where most people learn differently than he does. With spelling, I have my son practice writing his word list once every day, Monday through Thursday, then the test is on Friday. He has a 98% in Spelling. Reading comprehension is tough. We do a fluency testing every day. It’s just practice. His regular reading I read aloud to him. His comprehension soars when I do that. Your son likes more advanced books, than use those. Base your spelling lists on the vocabulary in them, and that will help his fluency. Have him read one paragraph a day to you from the big books. Time him for a minute. Have him read the same passage for another minute. He’ll always do better the second time, which will make him feel successful. But what you are trying to do is get him to practice reading. It will help build his skills. For Math, I gave up on Singapore math. It was just too crazy for him. I use Math-U-See. He spent a whole year just on Multiplication. He soaked on it. This year it’s just Division, and he got it instantly. Because he was allowed to spend loads of time in Multiplication and mastered it, his highly visual and intuitive brain instantly understood division. We will be done with this math program before February at his current pace, and it’s supposed to last the whole year.
I am not a teacher, I am a marketer. When we brought Tim home, I had no idea what I was doing. I learned by doing, experimenting, and talking to a friend who had walked this path before me. Plus my school is extremely supportive and helpful. Whenever I have a question or a problem, they are right there to help me. I am happy to share with you anytime. This is a tough road, and supporting your son properly is key for his success as an adult. My name is Kathy Carlson, and my email is kathyjcarlson@gmail.com.
Hi,
My son just took the WISC-5
His scores:
Verbal Comprehension Index: 118
Visual Spatial Index: 86
Fluid Reasoning Index: 69
Working Memory Index: 87
Processing Speed Index: 75
Full Scale IQ: 84
He does has done great in all subjects execpt math, but is now having trouble in other classes. He is in 7th grade. Organiztional skills are clearly lacking. Is his issues simular to you article above? Thanks!
Your son does have a significant verbal/ processing speed difference, so article should be helpful. I would also investigate flexible thinking/set shifting skills as his fluid reasoning score is low. Flexible Thinking Skills .
This is a perfect profile for my 33-year-old son who suffers from depression and is unable to keep a job for more than two years. Since he has not learned how to handle his frustrations and his slow processing ability still continues to be a problem. As his parents what would you advise us to do?
Here a blog article I wrote about processing speed at all ages. Processing Speed can be a Challenge at all ages.
I came across this article when searching for information for my son’s 504 meeting. I am wanting to give teachers some good strategies to work with him so he can be successful.
He currently is an 8th grader, and I had him tested in 3rd grade. The following were his scores:
verbal comp: 120
working memory: 88
percetual reasoning:106
processing speed: 88
full scale IQ: 105
achievement:
basic reading 107
reading fluency 106
reading comprehension 110
math calculation 96
math reasoning 99
written expression 112
listening comp 98
oral expression 107
He continues to struggle with math and writing. His self confidence is an issue. Last year he was allowed to redo assignments but could only receive a 70.. this year I am requesting that he is able to redo assignments and tests for full credit. I worry about his note taking, although it has improved over the years. Organization is a mess.. notebooks, reports, etc.
He is smart but I don’t think the teachers are seeing what he is capable of. Teachers will say he knows he can come to me for me to check if he has the assignments started right, or if he needs help. He will not seek this out on his own and I have asked that they seek him out to make sure he is on the right track. He does not write assignments in his planner, so then he isn’t prepared.
I really want a 504 written this year to support his strengths as well as everyone to work on his self esteem and confidence when it comes to academics.
Any help you can provide will greatly be appreciated.
wconsoli@esu1.org
Wendy Consoli
Here are the recommendations I wrote for a student with a similar profile:
RECOMMENDATIONS & ACCOMMODATIONS
• Use of Dragon Dictation software and the Inspiration program may be helpful for to improve his written output.
• Use of a computer at school and at home as well as a track pad for his key board is recommended
• His parents may find the following information helpful on children with weak processing speed: https://bitsofwisdomforall.com/2011/10/24/the-frustrated-learner-2/
• It is recommended that receive extra time (time and a half) on tests and classroom assignments
• A decrease in homework is also recommended due to weakness in processing speed. Large amounts of homework lead him to put forth extended energy and time to complete his work, which can lead to frustration.
Improve Working Memory, Processing Speed, Attention and Executive Functioning Skills
• The Processing and Cognitive Enhancement (PACE) Program is recommended to build processing speed
• The CogMed program is recommended to build working memory, which will help support his attention processing
• The Attention Processing Training Program (APT) will help build auditory and verbal attention.
• A program designed to improve executive functioning skills (such as the K & M Center Executive Functioning Program) is recommended. Specifically, skills taught should help him to develop a structured manner in which to approach tasks, pre-plan assignments, maintain organization, learn effective study habits and skills, as well as develop time management skills.
• Teach how to properly prepare; preparations made in advance will allow him more time once he begins the task.
• Teach self-talk to organize his learning and performance strategies and to focus his attention on tasks
• Build strategies to help analyze, prioritize, and execute specific steps in a given assignment
• Break down tasks and follow the order checking work along the way
• Teach strategies to increase engagement
• Build cognitive flexibility with games such as spot it, Blink!, Rush Hour
Improve ’ Reading Fluency, Rapid Naming and Written Expression
Reading:
• Even out reading fluency skills with Great Leaps and Read Naturally Programs
• Practice rapid naming, which will support reading fluency
• Teach strategies for comprehension
Writing
• Step up to Writing
• Review sentences structure and how to correct run on sentences
• Teach the writing process and editing strategies
• Encourage pre-writing activities such as brainstorming and outlining
• Inspiration Program
• Become proficient at keyboarding
• Dragon Speak software
Thanks for your help. We will be having his 504 soon as well as updating his testing information. I know he is frustrated and his teachers are frustrated. I find myself frustrated and then feel guilty.
Despite it being over 20 years ago, I can still remember being an elementary school student and facing this choice: write neatly but never complete in time or leave an illegible scrawl. To copy a whole page of notes before it was erased required so much concentration that it prevented me from actually committing enough to understand the content (again, a trade-off was required).
I also share the weakness in writing (condensing verbal thought into written/typed form), organizational skills and executive function of the hypothetical student.
Until finding this post (searching for a reason for poor performance on visual psychometric tests), I could never find an explanation for this particular combination of traits. Thanks for writing it and leaving it up.
Unbelievable to learn there are others who have difficulties very similar–if not identical–to my 12 yo son who has been “diagnosed” with so many different entities since he was 3 yo. His psychiatrist is ordering genetic testing to R/O Williams Syndrome. So frustrating just not knowing how best to help our son with his struggles. He’s also been diagnosed with EBD and is on Abilify to help with behavior and stability. I am motivated and interested to catch up with this conversation…just stumbled upon it tonight and now must go to bed!
So happy to have come to this site! I have been looking for answers for a very long time for my son, but have had little success. My son is going to be a 10th grader and my heart has ached for him this past school year. He studies and works on homework from the second he comes home from school until after midnight each evening. The weekends are much the same, as he spends at least 10 hours on Saturday and another 10 hours on Sunday on homework/studying. He is pretty driven and wants to excel (I never have to tell him to study or do his homework), however, everything in regards to studying and completing homework takes him SO much time. He does enjoy school, but he continues to be frustrated at never being able to finish tests and quizzes given in class due to time constraints, even though he knows the material (usually gets an A+ on the items that he completes but a less than great grade since he misses everything he has not attempted). He does have an accommodation plan in place (which allows him 1.5X, but it doesn’t appear to be enough time. We’ve advocated for more time, but it was denied). Additionally, he has ADHD (combined type) and is on medication, which works great.
Anyhow, here are his recent assessment results:
WISC-IV: (standard scores)
Verbal Comprehension Index: 128
Perceptual Reasoning Index: 135
Working Memory Index: 99
Processing Speed Index: 73
Full Scale: 116
GAI: 138
Academic scores which aren’t times fell in the above average range, but when a timed element was added, he falls below the 1st percentile.
Have you ever heard of allowing students more than 1.5X time on tests/quizzes? Do you have suggestions? His processing speed seems to be crippling. I always knew things took him extra time, but with a 73, I think things are much more significant than I ever imagined.
Thank you very much!
I am sorry your bright child is suffering. By the time students are in 10th grade they should be able to have a computer accommodation for all tasks, including tests. My thoughts on building PS in high school student are to become a touch typist, use dictation software and build executive functioning skills. Here is a link to an article I wrote about increasing PS by building EF skills.
Melissa,
I finally had the high school test my son, who just finished his Freshman year, for learning disabilities. The results were exactly what this article was about….very, very low visual spatial abilities and great oral comprehension, with struggles in basic reading. I’ve done a lot of intervention with him and was glad to know something was actually wrong.
Your suggestion for time and and half testing would be great if I could use that on the ACT, but they (the ACT) are very strict about accommodations for disability. It must be a diagnosed learning disability.
They wouldn’t diagnose him with one since his combined IQ was upper 90’s and the difference between expected performance and actual was not over 20 points difference.
However, they did say they didn’t know how his extremely low visual spatial (3%…on a scale of 0 to 100) would affect his other abilities.
Do I take him to a professional, who will test him in more detail?
Or should I just be happy that he’s average and leave it? Not really what I want to do.
Any help would be amazing.
Thanks,
Ruth
I would take him to a professional and see if a learning disability can be diagnosed. It is also worth doing some interventions to help him and a professional can guide you in that direction. Here is a link to my article on how processing speed affects students.
Melissa, I have been reading through your posts to try and understand the assessment. The numbers are percentile and do not seem to match up with the other types of numbers I have been seeing. I kids are frustrated, but I have to be honest that I am really frustrated. This child is English but is attending French immersion. She is good at soccer and doesn’t seem to have issues with pen to paper and so I am having difficulty matching the test with what I believe of her ……. But not really understanding the test. Wisc-iv Canadian English though she goes to school in French
FSIQ 42 percentile
VCI45 percentile
PRI 55 percentile
WMI 42 percentile
PSI 34 percentile
Verbal skills 63 percentile
Word meanings eng 37th percentile
Verbal meaning 37
Receptive language TTFC -2 97th percentile
Auditory memory skills
Digit span 50percentile
Letter number sequence 37 percentile
Verbal learning WRAML2 63 percentile
Verbal learning recognition 97 percentile
Story me more 97 percentile
Story memory recall 84
Multiple choice 75 percentile
Visual memory
Short term 50
Total score su test long term visual memory 63 percentile
Long delay 93 percentile
Processing speed
Symbol search 37percentile
Coding 37 percentile
Special and nonverbal reasoning
Visualization 25 percentile
Matrix reasoning 63 percentile
Abstract categorical reasoning 75 percentile
Visual motor integration 42 percentile
Visual perceptual abilities 14 percentile
Phonological skills this was done in French and it was average with no numbers given
Attention issues
Please help. I am reading a ton of things to try and understand this!
Your child’s WISC score are fairly even without significant differences. Her receptive language, recognition and story memory skills are the highest scores and indicate that she can take in and remember verbal information. You don’t indicate the reason for the assessment and there are no really low scores( her score run from average to superior*) so I don’t know what her academic struggle is. You note attention issues, so that may be the only issue.There are lots on articles on ADHD and how to manage attention so that students can achieve to their potential. Understood.org is a great resource
*There is one 14% in Visual perceptual abilities, but since her PRI is 55% I wouldn’t focus on that.
HI there,
I am wondering if you can help me my daughter recently had the WISC-IV test done. There is a large gap for her and I am just trying to understand it.
VCI-102-110-117
PRI-68-74-85
WMI-68-74-84
PSI-76-83-93
FSIQ-79-84-90
She is a 9 year 8 month lively young girl. These numbers are shocking to me and I am having a hard time finding resources for this type of split.
Your daughter’s scores indicate that she is strong verbally and good with her visual-motor skills. Her Perceptual Reasoning and Working Memory skills are a bit lower. Perceptual reasoning requires good working memory so building both PR and WM would be helpful.
To support this profile I suggest:
Improve Executive Functioning Skills, Working Memory and Study Techniques
-Teach the use self-talk to organize her learning and performance strategies and to focus her attention on tasks
-Build strategies to help analyze, prioritize, and execute specific steps in a given assignment
-Break down tasks and follow the order checking work along the way
-Encourage your daughter to visualize what she is going to do before she begins the task
-Teach your daughter strategies that cater to her understanding of the big picture:
Outlining
-The SQ3R approach is recommended as an approach to studying information from text books
-Give her a concept of the finished product when working on projects
-When working with academic material, review the components and the whole picture
-Build memory skills by building association to preexisting knowledge
-Teach your daughter strategies to help her recall information, such as PAR:
P= Picture it.
A= Associate it.
R= Review it.
-Memory strategies such as:
-“Chunking” information into more manageable units
-Rehearse new information to help encode it.
- Build your daughter’s visual-perceptual strategies and perceptual organization to support her problem solving skills:
Exercises to increase your daughter’s understanding of part-to-whole relationships is recommended
-The Snap cube Program will help your daughter build her visual thinking skills.
-Teach her how to use graphic organizers to depict information visually and increase her retention of ideas.
-Teach Active Reading Strategies to build verbal memory and reading comprehension skills:
-KWL Charts
-Predicting, paraphrasing, story/plot maps, character maps •
-Teach note-taking techniques that will present and summarize heard information visually.
-Exercises to sharpen her ability to attend to visual detail and to express similarities and differences between images are recommended.
Dear Melissa,
I am trying to reference you in my paper for university but I’m sure you know how much they drive home “only scholarly articles”!!! Have you written anything I might be able to find in PsychINFO or even a government education website? Or could you guide me to some scholarly articles that say the same thing as you’re saying about the reasoning behind the strong verbal comprehension and slow speed processing? I have been searching and searching with no luck whatsoever. Any help would be very much appreciated.
Thanks so much.
Sincerely,
Lauren Carter
I’m afraid I have not written anything scholarly,but a great new book came out that may help you: Bright Kids Who Can’t Keep up. It is the first thing that I have read that makes sense to me. I highly recommend it to anyone who want to understand processing speed.
These post are very helpful. As a child I struggled with dyslexia it was not until I had my own child that I found a helpful tool. I know this my not help everyone but if it can help one person it makes a difference. I found reading my daughter Dr. Suess books out loud to her greatly improved my understanding of letters in words. The extreme concentration I had over the constant rhyming but ever changing words caused me to look at the words differently. Then the reading out loud was an auditory way to keep my pace and not just skip over text. It’s not a fix but I felt it helped and I just wanted to share with others.
Hi Dr. Mullin,
I have been told that my child is adhd – combine, dyslexic, dysgraphic, dyscalcula and motor coordination issues. He is smart and very perceptive of people, their feelings and the world but it seems like his abilities don’t translate into academic performance. He is actually doing okay now but he is in the slowest classes and his reading, writing, spelling skills aren’t the best. I’m concerned he won’t be able to keep up as the academic expectations increase. He does receive speech, OT & vision therapy. I’m not sure if any of these services have or will work. Perhaps we are looking for a magic bullet but we haven’t seen a lot of improvements yet. He does have some interventions in place at school but I’m more interested in improving his weaknesses vs. accomodations. Are there additional programs or services that could help my child? Thanks.
VCI – 86%, PRI – 50%, PSI – 4% (Coding 16%, Symbol 1%)
WMI – 21%(Digit 16%, Letter 37%, Arith 16%)
Full -39%, GAI-75%
CELF – Sent Comp 16%, Word Struct 37%, Word Class 5%, Following Dir 25%, Form Sent 84%, Recalling Sent 25%
EOWPVT – 45%, ROWPVT – 86%
TAPS – Word Disc 9, Phono Seg 7, Phono Blend 14, Num Mem Fwd 8, Num Mem Rev 6, Word Mem 8, Sent Mem 8, Aud Comp -11, Aud Reasoning 12
Looking at the information you have provided I would make sure the vision therapy is occurring and see if they can give you exercise to work on at home. There are programs like PACE( processing and cognitive enhancement) and Eye-Q that build visual skills, but vision therapy is usually the best intervention.
Your son many have issues with executive functioning. You can have him take the quiz on my website to see how he rates. You can take it and answer the questions as you view him and then he can take it for himself. Compare the two scores, are they similar? Read more on executive functioning
Excellent post – I had been wondering about how someone might get on with a strong VCI but more average scores in other areas. I really like the clarity and style of your report – it makes complex concepts very straightforward to understand.
Thank you!
I just found your site and think it might be a game changer for my 13 yo son who struggles most with the easiest homework assignments on a daily basis. He gets so frustrated and sits in dread of doing homework for hours. Once he actually gets started on the task though, he can complete it quickly. But it takes him several hours to just get started!
His school will not give him a 504 plan because he gets good grades. The good grades come at a considerable cost to him though. Although I explain in our meetings the struggles he has, and his therapist also attends and does a good job advocating for him, the school will not give him accommodations – based on his grades and the fact that he is accelerated.
Perhaps you can help me articulate to the school about my son’s learning profile so that they might give him the accommodations to help him. He does have a diagnosis of anxiety and ADHD – inattentive type. He takes medication – adderall which he self reports helps with paying attention in class but not at all with output. He does not find the content at school challenging at all. He never studies. What IS challenging to him is the work.
Here are his WISC-IV scores:
VCI – 142
PRI – 131
WMI – 116
PSI – 121
FSIQ – 137
Similarities – 16
Vocab – 18
Comp – 17
Block Design – 13
Picture Concepts – 16
Matrix Reasoning – 16
Digit Span – 12
LNS – 14
Coding – 13
Symbol Search – 14
Block Design No Time Bonus – Raw Score – 42; Scaled Score – 13
Digit Span Forward – Raw Score – 11; Scaled Score 13
Digit Span Backward – Raw Score – 7; Scaled Score 10
LDSF – Raw Score – 7
LDSB – Raw Score – 4
Thank you for any insight you can provide.
Your son’s scores fall into the gifted range. His verbal comprehension, perceptual reasoning, and processing speed indexes are all in the superior range. The only discrepancy I see is in his working memory index. HIs ADHD diagnosis explains the weaker working memory.
There is nothing in his WISC scores that would explain his difficulty in school. It sounds like his difficulty is with executive functioning, specifically with initiation of task. Given his excellent verbal and perceptual reasoning skills, my guess is that he has so many ideas and possibilities running in his mind that it is difficult for him to select one to use on his assignments. Therefore, he is getting stuck before he even starts. This is what I call a weakness in mental organization. Your son needs to be able to hone in on one idea to begin a task. The best way to teach him this executive functioning skill is to first make him aware of how much he is thinking and then help him realize that there are multiple solutions to any problem and it is okay to pick whichever one he wants to try. So we are discussing two things here: mental flexibility and mental organization.
I have found that for many students with this profile building flexible thinking and teaching pre-writing skills are extremely helpful. The software program Inspiration helps with brainstorming all the ideas and getting them out, and then pruning the ideas down to the one you want to use can enable students to get started on a task.
If you are hoping for 504, you would need to have some academic testing done to show that his achievement is not matching his potential. Clearly he has strong intellectual potential, is he achieving in school? The Woodcock-Johnson tests measures basic skills for reading, writing, math along with fluency within those subjects. It would be interesting to see if there is a significant discrepancy between his basic skills and his academic fluency. As well as if there is a difference between his academic achievement and his cognitive potential. If significant differences exist between these scores then the school may be able to provide you with a 504.
Can a student who has average academic abilities but a low processing speed (75), all other cognitive abilities are average, get an IEP ? He is diagnosed on the spectrum. However how can autism relate to low processing speed? I am in NYS.
This is a hard question to answer. I have found that many students on the spectrum need extra time process information. A student should be able to get an IEP if his potential and achievement are discrepant. How much discrepancy is needed varies from state to state. I would certainly try to get extra time for a student with a 75 on processing speed.
Hi Dr Mullin,
Thanks for all your interesting replies. They have give me plenty to think about. My 8 year old son has recently completed a WISC IV. He is a fun, confident boy with an very active, enquiring mind (with his current interests being gems and minerals and all things wizard! ). He has an aptitude for mathematics and science and makes remarkable insights about the world around him (last week he told me that he had been thinking about curved lines and had decided that curved lines were simply made of a series of straight dots of elements!?). He is very advanced reader, but a laboured writer/homework completer. He is also very strong willed and has previously been diagnosed with SPD. He can be very inflexible and has trouble controlling his emotions at times. He actively tries to avoid teamwork at school, as he doesn’t value his peers ideas. This has caused a few problems for him, in terms of generating close friendships. At age 3 1/2, he was observed to have delays in gross motor skills and some problems with fine motor skills. In his Griffiths developmental scores that he undertook at age 3 1/2, he was found to be approx 6 months developmentally delayed (mostly due to gross motor delays and self-sabotage!)
His WISC scores were:
VC -136 (Similarities – 18. vocab -15, comprehension -15)
PR – 119 (Block design 16, picture concept, 10, matrix reasoning 13)
WM – 83 (digit span 11, letter-number seq 14, arithmetic -13)
PS -83 (coding 7 (not included), symbol search 6, cancellation 8)
(Arithmetic with questions repeated and with paper for one answer – 18)
Apparently the scores above may be deflated by lack of readiness to do the tests, lack of concentration and arguing about how best to do them! I am thus wondering whether or not he needs to do anymore tests. In particular, are we getting the full score in the VC? I am also concerned that he is telling me that his mathematics class is boring and too easy.
Any insights that you have into my son and how best to support his development would be appreciated.
Looking at these scores and reading your description of your son, would advise building his flexibility and social skills as well as fine motor skills. He is a very bright child and he should be challenged in his math and reading, as well as his ability to relate to his peers. I would see if you can find him an afternoon lego robotics course to build his talent in math and building. I would talk to the teacher about extra math work for when he finishes his classwork. Make sure the extra work is not rote work, but rather problem solving activities that involve math.
Sensory integration work with an Occupational Therapist will be helpful for building his motor skills. Since his verbal skills are so strong, he will have to be patient to get his ideas out on paper. Dragon Dictate is a good option to help once he is older, however at his age he is still building brain connections and research shows that motor skills help that mental integration so it is worth his continuing to write.
I have a “frustration profile”. I have a high verbal IQ and “very superior” abstract reasoning abilities, but I have slow visual processing speed (runs in the family), and writer’s cramp in my hands, which leads to an over all slow working speed and low performance IQ with respect to my verbal IQ. I used to get infinitely frustrated as a child because I would start on a task and people would not give me the time I needed to finish. They would either think I was having difficulty and “help” me by interrupting me and trying to tell me or show me something I already knew, or they would not permit me to finish my work because time was up, and then treat me like I was not proficient in the subject matter. This caused me to develop a lot of frustration and anxiety which I still experience as an adult. I have a hard time working in groups because I’m constantly distracted by the people around me, expecting them to interrupt my thought process any moment. This also makes it impossible to demonstrate my working knowledge on the spot, and the thought of a potential employer asking me to solve a simple problem during a job interview terrifies me.
When time constraints are removed and I am promised I won’t be interrupted, I rise from the 3rd percentile in math to the 99th percentile (I am in a STEM field and have a degree in mathematics), and 2nd percentile to the 98th percentile on the Nelson-Denny Reading comprehension test.
I was held back in mathematics in Jr. High because of my slow speed, and forced to do timed multiplication tests every day, despite my insistence that I understood higher mathematical concepts. I never got any faster at the tests, and holding me back greatly delayed my college education (which wouldn’t have been possible at all if not for extended test time).
The first learning assessment test I had when I was 7, and the last one I had was when I was 27, and my learning profile and scores have remained surprisingly consistent throughout my life. What’s even more surprising is that my brother and father have almost identical learning profiles, and difficulties to my own. I’m guessing this implies that, in our case, they are caused by certain inherited physical neurological attributes.
I think the best thing that people can do when dealing with a child with the same or similar learning profile to mine, is to not interrupt them. Let them finish their work on their own. We are not sitting there having a hard time with something. We are simply sloths in a world of hummingbirds.
Thank you for sharing your experience. We often have a negative view of sloths, so I looked it up to learn more about them. The important thing is that there is usually an advantage to found in situations. You have learned to honor your process knowing that you are very smart and given the time to process information you can do exceptional work. I would not use the term sloth to describe you, but since you did here is what National Geographic has to say about sloths:
The sloth is the world’s slowest mammal, so sedentary that algae grows on its furry coat…..Three-toed sloths also have an advantage that few other mammals possess: They have extra neck vertebrae that allows them to turn their heads some 270 degrees.
Here’s to the unique traits in all of us!
Dear Melissa,
Thought I would let you know my son’s story as it fits this profile exactly. We have just had him retested having gone through a nightmare few months. What I have learnt is that the way in which a young child is tested is so important.
At 7 years my son was struggling in reading, writing, spelling and maths. At 4 years he had a great kindergarten teacher and family friend who was previously a primary school teacher specializing in gifted and talented. She noticed my son’s advanced knowledge and verbal skills, but also noticed he was struggling in other areas. She suspected he was developing asynchronously and warned me that once he started primary that he may be misunderstood.
Fast forward two years and we are asked by his school to do an Ed Psych assessment to deal with the above as well as his (non-ADHD like) daydreaming and inability to sit still. We were urged to do a full report including questionnaires on his behavior etc. which his teacher said was not a problem. We were told he socialized fine and there were no problems in this area.
We took him to a clinic where he had to sit in a white room with no windows and do a full battery of tests (the full 14 WISC IV as well as additional tests) carried out on three separate occasions, as well as fill in countless forms on his behavior. We also had him assessed by a therapist who noticed problems with balance and we started exercises. It was too much for him and he developed anxiety symptoms, such as facial movements and started to wet the bed gain. In the meantime his reading skills had soared and he now in fact has above average reading abilities.
The Ed Psych tests and report took over a month to complete and there were many exaggerations. We were also told that my son had not understood instructions in the perceptual reasoning and processing speed categories. Therefore his results were superior VCI, above average/average perceptual reasoning and working memory and below average processing speed. The psychologist said my son had average literacy skills, and the real reason for referral must have been behavioral, so she sent out an additional GADS form to both myself and his teacher. She said it was most probable the teachers suspected autism. She said my son was probably in the top 5% of the spectrum.
(While our behavioral questionnaires came back showing our son was depressed, the teachers forms came back showing significant behavioral and social problems, and his teacher was quite perplexed by this.)
While I have no prejudice against autism, I have a big issue with mis-labelling, and do not believe my son is autistic. I was now stuck with a report that both my husband and I felt was just not the kid we knew. I found your article and knew I had to do something to ensure my son got the help he needed.
We have since had to see developmental pedeatricians to get out of this mess (who say he is not autistic but has specific right-sided fine motor issues, and strongly suspected dyslexia). We decided to retest my son this summer.
The test was quite different to the one we took in the spring, carried out at my house with me present, and every test explained very clearly to ensure accuracy. We scored the tests together, and it was a wonderful experience for both my son and I. My son did not recall that he had taken the tests before, and the psychologist did explain that he felt for a 7 year old this was not an issue. The great thing about doing the test this way was that my son, who by now had very low self esteem, could see that while he does have slightly below average writing and spelling, his reading was high average. His VCI and perceptual reasoning scores were expected in an 11 year old or older. By contrast, his working memory and processing speed were both average for his age. The Ed Psych said that he had relative dyslexia and required a challenging curriculum with allowances for his literacy skills.
The wonderful thing about this assessment is that my son’s anxiety symptoms have stopped and now that he no longer thinks he is stupid (his words) he has a renewed thirst for knowledge that he lost in the first two years of primary school.
Term has just started and we are meeting with the INC next week. Fingers crossed he will get what he needs to be happy and healthy and interested in school!
Daniela
I wish you a wonderful school year! Thanks for sharing your story.
Dr. Mullen,
I have a similar profile to the one listed in the article. What would you suggest for someone in college. Are there any restrictions on the fields that they can go into? What if math has always been a large issue?
Here are some suggestions for a college student with this profile.
If you have a diagnoses code that should make you eligible for some accommodations. If you have a significant difference between your Verbal Comprehension Index and Processing Speed Index so you should definitely get extra time on in-class assignments and tests. I have listed some accommodations below that might help you. Additionally, I suggest you learn to use Inspiration and Dragon Speak Naturally to enable you to organize your thoughts and then dictate them into the computer.These recommendation are from the article titled College Accommodations while it is for students with ADHD but many of the suggestions will be good for you.
Classroom Accommodations:
• Tests:
Extended time on tests and assignments,
Testing in a separate and quiet place,
Testing over several sessions
Use of a computer
Dividing an exam up into parts and allowing student to take them in two or three sessions over 1-2 days helps reduce the effect of fatigue and focus on one section at a time.
• Lectures:
Permission to record lectures,
Audio-taped text book,
Assistance with writing class notes (i.e., note taking service),
Reading assistance service (i.e., reading group)
• Courses:
Written instructions from professors,
Priority registration with a professional in the disability services office,
The possibility of class substitution within the curriculum,
Reduced course load
Advance notice of assignments
Textbooks on tape
Use of a calculator for math
What students with learning issues can provide for themselves:
• Choosing:
Right college: with good reasonable accommodations for students with ADHD,
-Support group for students with LD,
College with large number of ADHD-LD specialists,
College with many registered LD students
To disclose your LD diagnosis at the earliest possible opportunity and request appropriate accommodations including those that the school may not readily offer but you can justify the need.
• Contact:
School’s office of disability and be familiar with its resources;
Health officials to provide them with documentations that prove your LD status and proof that LD affects your academic performance;
Writing center and utilize it properly;
Professors beyond the classroom, make use of office hours, if only to introduce yourself. Set up appointments to clarify assignments.
• Find:
How and where to access support from tutors, whether on campus or online;
Healthy study environment early on: proper time management (including a schedule that includes time for studying, socializing and exercising), distraction free study environment;
A study buddy or study group: sign up for classes with friends, or make friends in the classes you have so that you will support each other in and out of class;
An academic coach (through the college counseling office or privately) that will check in with you throughout the week to ensure success.
Hi Melissa,
I have been reading your site with great interest! We have recently completed a psycho-educational assessment, but both myself, my husband and the teachers have been disappointed with the diagnosis feeling that it does not quite fit my 7-year (now 7 1/2) old son. The Ed Psych diagnosed him with very high functioning autism (aspergers) and dysgraphia. She said his eye contact was poor and he talked like a little professor.
We have had subsequent visits to a university hospital where my son was born premature, for a developmental assessment. The pediatrician said he had right side hemiparesis (with muscle weakness in hand, not dysgraphia), and has asked for further tests to carried out, including an MRI, and ordered occupational therapy. He did not believe he had aspergers either.
By way of background, six months earlier, we heard from his teacher that he was very behind in reading and spelling. He began the Lexia reading program and made good progress. His spelling is now quite intuitive. He worked on Lexia for three months, but became more and more frustrated with homework. We were then called in and told that he was also struggling greatly with maths and writing and fidgeted a lot, but did not appear hyperactive. We were asked to get an Ed Psych assessment. We were also told that he was introverted at school and rarely spoke up in class. At home we noticed that he often slumped and slided across the sofa when reading, although he was always well-behaved when eating dinner.
We went ahead with the assessment but also hired a learning therapist who suggested he had trouble crossing the midline and with tracking, and had low muscle tone. We began exercizes to help him. He had some nasty side effects from the therapy (dizziness, tinnitus, irritability, obvious facial movements and bed wetting) but we pressed on and his coordination improved considerably. His behavior also improved dramatically, and he no longer has angry outbursts (never tantrums) with regards homework.
There were a lot of tests because our Ed Psych said she couldn’t find any significant disability. In contrast my son’s teacher feels it is impossible that he could have scored within the averages to high averages in any tests other than VCI)
The scores of his tests were scattered as follows:
WISC IV
VCI 128/ PRI 106/ WMI 104/ PSI 85
(Subtests: Block design 12, similarities 17, digit span 10, picture concepts 10, coding 14, information 12, arithmetic 12, letter-number sequencing 12, matrix reasoning 11, comprehension 13, symbol search 1, vocabulary 14, picture completion 10, word reasoning 12)
NB The Psych said he had trouble scanning the rows on the symbol search and may have misunderstood the instructions
WJ-III Cog
Long term retrieval 104
(visual auditory learning 100, retrieval fluency 109)
Delayed recall 101
(story recall-delayed 106, visual-auditory-learning delayed 97)
Processing speed 82
(visual matching 87, rapid picture naming 95, decision speed 78, pair cancellation 99)
Auditory processing (incomplete words) 95
Short-term memory
(number reversed 80, auditory working memory 114)
Visual-spatial thinking (picture recognition) 111
Note: some of the following tests were carried out on the day my son was experiencing side (dizziness and weakness) effects from his therapy:
WJ-111 ACH
Reading 109
(letter-word identification 114, reading fluency 108, passage comprehension 101, word attack 113)
Mathematics 96
Calculation 88, math fluency 90, applied problems 106)
Oral expression 116
(story recall 115, picture vocabulary 113, oral comprehension 113)
Written language 116
(Spelling 116, writing fluency 106, writing samples 118)
CTOPP-2
Phonological awareness 116
(elision 11, blending words 17, phenome isolation 9)
Rapid symbol naming 95
(rapid digit naming 9, rapid letter naming 9)
Alternative phonological awareness 79
(blending nonwords 5, segmenting nonwords 8)
My son reached his motor milestones late but was an early talker. However, he never spoke in phrases. He is sometimes awkward in crowds and either gets very excited or anxious, sometimes covering his ears. Prior to and during kindergarten, he had an incredible wealth of knowledge in areas such as animals, dinosaurs, prehistory and earth evolution. He did not appear obsessed, and the books and videos were sought out mostly by myself after noting his interest. He was not recognizing his numbers age 4, and was right-hand dominant around age 5. He was always very reluctant to draw or write and to learn his alphabet.
His kindergarten teacher previously specialized in gifted and talented in an international primary school. She thought my son was twice gifted specifically conceptually. She warned me that he would also have learning difficulties and to pay attention that my son did not appear to be big headed or he might be rejected by his peers. After we spoke to him that his latest interest, history, wasn’t anything his friends might understand (this frustrated him) he stopped talking about it at all, and we later learnt that even in classes where he had a wealth of knowledge he would rarely speak up. He said he was either ‘keeping it secret’ or that ‘someone always spoke up before him.’
He is now doing very well with reading, but is struggling with mental arithmetic. His handwriting has improved considerably, but is still well behind his peers.
Apologies for the very long message. This is a little complicated and we are very confused! Hope you can shed some light on this.
Testing results are often confusing because we are using tests to try to find out how a child’s brain is working and this is an imperfect method, but the best we have at this time. It sounds like you have done well finding interventions that have worked for your son. Based on what you have told me I would investigate his eye-tracking skills a bit further with a developmental optometrist or eye specialist who understand vision therapy. I would also investigate his executive functioning skills, specially set shifting. Difficulty with set shifting can lead to trouble with problem solving and flexible thinking which can cause a child to become ridge in his thinking and present with a “black or white” approach to instructions or rule. Given his response to your suggestion about sharing his history knowledge it sounds like he have difficult in this area. For handwriting I like the Re-train the Brain and Handwriting without Tears programs.
Dear Dr Mullen,
Just wanted to let you know that my son DOES in fact have visual problems, just like you said! Not just tracking either – in several areas including figure ground which I understand can explain some difficulties in the plaground and ‘busy’ worksheets. He was mostly assigned visual work last year as he was considered a visual learner.
He is currently working through visual therapy and it is doing wonders. After just five sessions he is writing most of his numbers in the correct direction.
He’s progressed significantly in all areas and is so happy! He is one of the first in his class to learn his times tables, and his reading, despite his tracking issues, is very advanced. He’s still struggling a little with cursive writing, but he is now able to get most of his thoughts down on paper in a timely manner. It also helps that he has a fantastic teacher this year!
He’s been through many medical tests and there was nothing significantly wrong, albeit a minor vestibular issue which we are focusing on. I understand this also contributes to eye weakness.
He has made so many friends this year, it just shows that when a kid gets help – that is the right kind of help – it can do wonders for their self esteem.
I wish you were here in Hong Kong! It is wonderful how you are helping people. Even remotely you are getting it right.
THANK YOU!
Dear Melissa,
my son (8) has recently taken a Wisc iii. He is a very bright, sociable and funny kid. He is a quick thinker with a great sense of humor. He’s bilingual Italian-French. He was referred to a speech therapist in September after his teacher pointed out the discrepancy between his cognitive capacity and writing skills, in particular poor spelling. He has been seeing the speech therapist once a week but with no significant results.
After speaking with both his teacher and the speech therapist we took him for a complete check up including the wisc test, with a view to apply for a Special educational programme.
I don’t have all the breakdown, however he scored 139 verbal and 130 reasoning but only 85 processing speed. He was also diagnosed with dysorthography. Also the neuropsychiatrist underlined that his fine motricity skill are a little poor but not alarmingly so. I must say i never noticed as he loves and is very good at drawing.
The psycologist suggested increased speech therapy for a few months but to stop and move to compensation strategy if this doesn’t work.
I am worried for my son. His notes are good for the moment, although not as good as they could be. How can we help him? Thanks
Daniela
N
Given the large difference between his verbal and fine motor skills I would not ignore the fine motor skill development. Here an article that many help you:
Slow Processing Speed…is it due to weak motor skills, weak auditory processing skills or weak executive function skills?
Posted on July 8, 2014
Dear Melissa,
as I have now the detailed results of my son’s WISC IV test, I was hoping you might be able to shed some light and recommend some plan of action.
Verbal 134
similarities 17 vocab 16 comprehension 14
PR 139
block 13 picture concepts 19 matrix 16
WM 103
digit span 11 letter sequencing 10
PS 85
coding 6 symbols 9
A further intensive speech therapy course was recommended, which he completed. His writing and spelling seem to have improved although he still makes mistakes in particular if tired.
We also found somebody to help with his homework as they said it’s best if it’s not his mum helping him.
I am not sure what his finemotricy issues could be or how best to help him there.
He enjoys drawing and is very precise and good at it.
Also this year he will start writing in French at school. Does that mean that he will need speech therapy in French aswell?
Thank you for any advice you might be able to give and for your helpful website.
This is a very bright young man who is verbal and spatial thinker. His working memory and processing speed are significantly below is other index scores. The working memory(WM) index on the WISC is auditory working memory which is a skill needed for auditory processing. His working memory is average, so this indicates that it is fine, until we look at his verbal skills which are superior. The problem comes when he has to work with new auditory information, which will be the case learning a new language. Since his WM is average he can process the auditory information and work with it, however it will be harder than what he is used to and may lead to frustration. There is a correlation between WM weakness and executive functioning and/or attention issues. Sometimes gifted learners have absorbed information so easily when they are little they have not learned how to breakdown and work with new information that is outside their area of expertise. I hope that the homework helper you have is building executive functioning skills as they do homework. The Executive Functioning Workbook can help build the skills needed.
This article is the perfect description of my 13 year old son. He is dysgraphic, not diagnosed until 11 because he had great penmanship and is so bright. He did four months of vision therapy for some tracking and convergence issues. I thought it had helped, but I had him tested recently for the first time in six years, and here are his scores: WISC IV
Verbal Comp-155
Perceptual Reasoning-135
Working Memory-144
Processing Speed-92
GAI-155
Processing Speed Subtest Scores:
Coding-8
Symbol Search-9
Cancellation-10
Visuospatial Perception-Motor coordination 60 percentile
He avoids all written work, even math. His executive skills actually came back all in superior range.I am at such a loss at how to help him.
Thank you,
Sarah
Your son is very bright and a great thinker. Even though his fine motor skills are fine for his age, they are not as fast as his thinking skills. I would try to get him fluent in typing and get a computer accommodation for tests and notes. I would also recommend using Dragon Dicate for writing assignments at home. While his executive functioning skills maybe strong, he may need extra help honing in on the main ideas he wants to communicate. My guess is he could write a book on many topics when the teacher is only requiring a couple pages. Inspiration is a great tool to help students focus what they want to write about. The issue for your son is filtering his thoughts to what is relevant and needed for assignments. This is a challenging task which requires higher order thinking skills he may not have learned yet. Finding a tutor or educational specialist who can work with your son to get his ideas out, organize them, prune them down and then write an assignment will help him learn how to manage the great ideas he has in a timely manner and hopefully help with any frustration he may have.
Dr. Mullin, my son is bright, energetic, and loads of fun, and he is terrible at school. He’s in third grade, and he’s always behind. He thinks he is stupid, gets frustrated very easily, and cannot write a sentence to save his life. The school and we have worked together with Tim, but he is drowning at school. We brought him home to school here, the school has provided access to the curriculum, and I have started him at the beginning of second grade to fill in the blanks. It’s been five months now. I have gotten a very good handle on what Tim’s skills, strengths, and weaknesses. He is a super-slow processor. He is highly visual. He is very imaginative. Math is no problem for him given personal attention and time to get the work done. Spelling is a piece of cake when we do lots of practice seeing and writing the words. Reading is improving. Writing, however, is killing both of us. I’ve not only broken writing down into outline format, and graph format, literally explaining what each sentence does and is for, but write for him so he doesn’t have the stress of trying to physically put words on a page. Yet, we have problems. He cannot figure out what is important. Looking at a few pages on, say, volcanoes makes him cry. He doesn’t know what is important even though we’ve written down the questions. If I glean the information for him, he has no idea what to say. He just wants to regurgitate the bullet points I have written. Creating a sentence is worse than pulling teeth because you can actually pull out someone’s teeth. Pulling a sentence out of Tim is more like raising a herd of unicorns, impossible. Example sentences don’t help. Giving him ideas doesn’t help. He just freezes and cries actual tears because he has no idea how to make his brain work. He’s tired. He has to go to the bathroom. He feels sick. He has the hiccups. He stares off into space, thinking…forever. On and on and on. It’s incredibly frustrating for us both. I’d skip writing, but I can’t skip writing. He needs to learn how to write. Do you have any ideas on how to help me get him to form a sentence? Thanks!!!
It sounds like you are doing great work with him. Writing is very complex task. It involves thinking of what you want to say, organizing those thoughts into order, transforming the organized idea into words, and stringing the words into a sentence that reflects the idea. I’m glad you are writing for him and allowing him to just focus on the ideas. Can he tell a story? If so, he can write a sentence since his story is made up of sentences. If he can’t tell a story, then you need to just start with a word, then add an adjective, then an action. Here are some links to workbooks that might help you: Writing-Grade-2-Spectrum http://www.amazon.com/Writing-Grade-2-Spectrum/dp/0769652824 Elementary-Teachers-Graphic-Organizers-Readyhttp://www.amazon.com/Elementary-Teachers-Graphic-Organizers-Ready/dp/1118343042/ref=pd_rhf_se_s_cp_3_PYJG?ie=UTF8&refRID=035VECBM6FCBJ59K431B
Thanks Dr. Mullin! I appreciate the feedback. There are so few students like Tim, there aren’t many resources for knowledgeable help.
Dear Melissa,
I recently took the WAIS as part of a psychodiagnostic evaluation and I had this profile. I am 51 years old and suffering from depressions, for which I receive counceling. Allhough on the outside everything looks fine – I have a PhD and am teaching at a college – it took me years to finish high school. College and grad school were a mess, but I somehow got a PhD and tenure at a college. Unfortunately, because everybody myself included was already happy that I finished any college, any grad school and a phd at all, not much thinking went into choosing what kind of degrees I should or could get. Basically I always chose easy topics. Because my high school performance was so bad, it seemed the safe choice when going to college. The result is that I’m now stuck with degrees in topics I do not really lke, and teach topics that do not really interest me. I love the teaching itself, so there I find compensation, but I cannot help thinking what would have happened if I had taken the WAIS or any other test at high school. My learning difficulties might have been recognised and with some help and management I could have taken degrees I would have liked. Now my learning problems were explained by lazyness, unwillingness, or maliciousness. After all, I seemed smart enough, was creative and intellectually ahead of my peers, so if my schoolwork was bad that must have been intentional. It frustrates me that a few easy tests could have given a different perspective, so I encourage every parent to seriously evaluate learning difficulties in their children. I recognize many things parents write here – I was one of those smart but unorganized children with extremely bad handwriting that somehow couldn’t get his act together. It was extremely frustrating and depressing.
It took me more than 30 years to find out what went wrong at school, and I finally realize that is was not my fault. I’ve decided to go back to college and get the degree I always wanted. I hope my story encourages parents never to stop searching what is wrong with their children. Not everyone might get a second chance 30 years later.
Jack